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What grade does Johnson County start violin? 4th grade Chapel Hill music class is recorder for everyone. Elective instrumental music starts in 6th grade in Chapel Hill. When I was a kid in a suburb of NYC, elective instrumental music started in 4th grade and required foreign language started in 5th. I think starting foreign language earlier is better. My daughter started in pre-K with Spanish and had to switch to French for 2nd grade. She loves learning the languages and will spontaneously practice the sounds at home. I never enjoyed foreign language like that when I started in middle school.
I like the Suzuki "mother tongue" approach to music instruction. The repitore is very good and the student listens to recordings of the pieces. I started late with Suzuki for violin. Some kids in my school started when they were 4 or 5 and were amazing by the time they were 11. My 2nd grade daughter has started piano lessons (conventional and cheaper) and I try to "Suzuki" them by playing the pieces while she eats breakfast and dinner. (I'm a very basic piano player but can keep time, etc.) When she practices, (I don't correct her because she hates to be corrected!) we just take turns playing each song two times. Usually after my turn, her playing improves. I took piano lessons starting in 3rd grade without any recordings or help from my non-musical parents and my progress was much slower and practicing wasn't nearly as much fun.
Johnston is 3rd grade for the violin... 4th for the recorder,
Is there any correlation between the elementary and middle schools that offer these electives and the high schools they feed into being "the best" in the state/region/county? And if these schools are not allowed to offer "electives" then one would think if students are only allowed to take Math, English, History,Science and PE then there would be better scores in those categories (PE not included but kids would be in better shape) since there would be more of a focus on those classes. Maybe I am thinking way to into this and obviously I don't have the full story but based off of what this thread shows Orange County and Johnston County seem to actually have the better school systems of the three for educational diversity and not handcuffing schools financially. You would think that a county would rather overspend on it's kids educations.
I agree with this, based on what I'm reading here from people who live in Wake and send their kids to school there.
Up here we have instrument instructionas an elective beginning in 4th, band and orchestra in 5th, foreign language in 6th (I wish it were earlier) and other electives in middle school such as public speaking, reading/writing lab, power skills, math lab, "tech" which is according to my middle schooler "science but like technology" ??? and some others I can't remember. Art and music start in kindergarten. At the elementary level the specials are art, music, library, health and PE. The middle school has an "intramural" program where the kids can sign up to do anything from dodgeball to chess, to homework club, newspaper, and a whole host of other things. The 4th and 5th grades have something similar with flag football added in there. Intramurals are all after school programs. The middle school has a football, hockey, volleyball and hockey team. This is in addition to the town youth sports leagues. Our high school has jazz band, choir, orchestra, etc. as well as a pretty comprehensive curriculum for a small school. They only offer 3 languages (French, Spanish and Latin) but the kids are able take online courses during designated school periods. Seniors have an independent study project ("senior project").
When we left Fairfax County and moved up here, I really thought we were going to lose something going to such a small, town based school district. But my town does a pretty good job. They are also one of the lowest per-pupil spending districts in the state. So I've learned that spending money does not necessarily equate to a good education.
I like what I see (from afar, granted) in the Chapel Hill schools and even some Orange County schools. Based on the feedback of so many of you in Clayton, I've started to research Johnston County too and have been very pleasantly surprised to find what are, in my opinion some solid schools and a great curriculum. It's good to know there are choices outside WCPSS or private school.
Seriously, I wish I had known more about Johnston County schools before we bought our 2nd Raleigh house 3 years ago. When we first moved here in 98 the Johnston County schools didn't have the greatest reputation, but they have really improved.
You know, I never thought about the idea that our kids should be doing much better in the basics since they get no electives in elem school. But its a really valid point. Depressing and sad, but valid.
Whoever made the comment about the wealthy school getting more electives--you definitely have a point there. Although Durant had traditionally been a very low poverty school until they started busing kids in. BUT, I think that their lack of electives has more to do with being on a year round schedule than money. Which is fine if families are choosing to go year round. But now that they are trying to force families onto that schedule they'd better make sure that academic offerings are equal.
Money plays a big role, though. Lacy Elementary, for instance, has a foundation that helps pay for extras at the school. Besides the traditional art, music and PE, they also have Spanish, I think drama and they have a fully equipped science lab with a full time science teacher. From what I understand (I'm having trouble getting a straight answer from various people), the foundation pays for the science teacher and maybe some other staff members. Teachers are NOT supposed to be funded by outside sources, but I have heard from a Lacy staff member that the science teacher is considered a TA to get around it. He still gets paid a real teacher's salary but somehow he is not considered a teacher so the foundation can pay for it.
I absolutely do not fault Lacy parents for raising money to give their school extras, but its very frustrating since this school system touts its equity all the time. Lacy is located in an extremely wealthy area ITB and they have a very stable base. People donate $800 or $1000 a year to the foundation. First of all, how many average people have the money to do that and second, areas with turbulent assignments are going to be less likely to donate large amounts of money. They might be gone the very next year so unless they see that money spent right then, they are essentially giving it to the next 'occupants'. Turner Creek (a voluntary year round), for example. It was only 3 or 4 years old when the BOE took over 60% of its base out this year to reassign them to the newly converted year rounds. Those parents had built that PTA up from scratch and did a TON of fundraising to purchase sun shades for the playground. What incentive will they have for busting their butts again for a new school?
I know that I am always pointing out the negative things about our school system, but it angers me that we have so much inequality in a school system that gets accolades for equality. The only way we can get any change and more fairness for EVERYbody is if we make noise about it. Nobody ever questions them. I am not against busing for diversity as a whole. But they cannot show that the busing helps achievement at all. And it doesn't seem to be a factor in all of this. Our low income kids are performing at abysmal rates and their achievement is never a factor in their reassignment. We bus them 12 or more miles from home and nobody is tracking if they are doing better or worse. If they aren't doing better and we're making it harder for their families to participate in their education then is it worth it?
I agree with this, based on what I'm reading here from people who live in Wake and send their kids to school there.
Up here we have instrument instructionas an elective beginning in 4th, band and orchestra in 5th, foreign language in 6th (I wish it were earlier) and other electives in middle school such as public speaking, reading/writing lab, power skills, math lab, "tech" which is according to my middle schooler "science but like technology" ??? and some others I can't remember. Art and music start in kindergarten. At the elementary level the specials are art, music, library, health and PE. The middle school has an "intramural" program where the kids can sign up to do anything from dodgeball to chess, to homework club, newspaper, and a whole host of other things. The 4th and 5th grades have something similar with flag football added in there. Intramurals are all after school programs. The middle school has a football, hockey, volleyball and hockey team. This is in addition to the town youth sports leagues. Our high school has jazz band, choir, orchestra, etc. as well as a pretty comprehensive curriculum for a small school. They only offer 3 languages (French, Spanish and Latin) but the kids are able take online courses during designated school periods. Seniors have an independent study project ("senior project").
When we left Fairfax County and moved up here, I really thought we were going to lose something going to such a small, town based school district. But my town does a pretty good job. They are also one of the lowest per-pupil spending districts in the state. So I've learned that spending money does not necessarily equate to a good education.
I like what I see (from afar, granted) in the Chapel Hill schools and even some Orange County schools. Based on the feedback of so many of you in Clayton, I've started to research Johnston County too and have been very pleasantly surprised to find what are, in my opinion some solid schools and a great curriculum. It's good to know there are choices outside WCPSS or private school.
Yes, yes and yes. We moved to Johnson for that reason. Think back over the border to Fairfax in Virginia. Do you see things in Wake playing out like they did in Fairfax or PG and now Charles. Which of the four are now most similar?
PG, Charles, Fairfax or Loudon. In fifteen years which will Wake be more like?
I think people need to keep schools and education in perspective. "School" is not about whether or not you can play violin. Maybe it's just me, but I don't loose any sleep in WCPSS because we don't have violin as part of the regular curriculum. I don't think my children won't get into a good college, have a prosperous career or be any less of valuable person because they don't have access to various electives. If it were that important to me, we'd be doing it outside of school at the elementary level anyway, just like we do our other activities.
the ONLY thing that bothers me is the lack of foreign language at some middle schools , but looking over the Johnston county curriculum website, I don't see either of these as regular offerings at the middle or elementary school level. They say the same thing as WCPSS...that they offer the basic NC course of study. Is it individual schools that offer violin or all of them? ALso, do they provide all of the violins or is it an elective? Just curious because I couldn't find anything about it except for the AIG center. I also couldn't find anything about foreign language starting in elementary and middle school. Is this county wide or individual schools?
Raleighjayne, you have an excellent point about fundraising and stable population bases. I think that's one of the reasons our district is able to spend so little per pupil, yet be one of the highest performing districts in the state. Our teachers do NOT get paid top of the line, yet teachers love working in this district. I just came back from my oldest son's open house at the high school and yet again all the teachers mentioned how great it was to teach when the kids come into class ready to learn. They don't have to spend time with discipline issues. Kids will be kids but they are all very focused on their education.
We have a great PTA and we've made a splash implementing the nationwide SCRIP program locally in the schools. Over 50% of the families participate and we wish it could be more. We don't have to have the kids do any other fundraisers and things like the 8th grade trip to Washington DC/NYC and the 7th grade trip to Lake George NY (Nature's Classroom) can be funded with the proceeds from SCRIP. I didn't have to pay a dime for my oldest son's DC/NY trip but I made sure everyone in my extended family purchased a LOT of scrip that year!
So the money raised from Scrip is used by each school to fund pet project(s) such as improved technology (computers, smart boards, etc) or other things the school budget just does not cover. We have a separate parent run Coalition for Public Education that hosts a huge fundraising event in the fall (this year it's a casino night with a silent auction) and helps underwrite grants for various teachers and also fund school projects. Scrip paid for brand new (and safe) playground equipment and a climbing wall in the elementary schools last year.
Parents were behind a private run fundraiser called "Field of Dreams" which replaced our crappy grass athletic field with turf and also a brand new track and bleachers. The football team hosts several well attended fundraisers which go to pay for letterman's jackets for the seniors and new uniforms, etc. You might think all this stuff is superflous, but it's a matter of importance and pride with the kids. My point is that the school committee doesn't have to use school funds to pay for any of this. They live in this town, they are proud of their school. Vandalism is virtually non-existent.
Tuborg, I only had a short time with my oldest in school in Fairfax County but I was very happy with the program there. I know there are wide variations in schools in FFX but I never heard anyone say "don't move to this-or-that neighborhood because the schools are terrible". There were certain high schools that were more sought after but each high school had a solid core. We left NoVA in 1997 so I can't comment on what the district is like today. Nor can I say much about Loudon, PG or Montgomery, though I used to hear that Montgomery schools were also very good. My guess is that Loudon is solid too. Waterboy will chime in soon because he's pretty knowledgeable about the way Fairfax County schools are run but I believe the district is regionalized which makes running such a large county based system more manageable. When I lived there, I never heard of constant redistricting, bussing, or any of the issues I read about constantly with Wake. In Fairfax, the schools were definitely neighborhood based.
I believe if you take away the neighborhood, the school dynamic changes. How can a school enjoy parent involvement if most of the parents live miles and miles away. How can a school be part of a community when 60% of its student population lives elsewhere? Private school is different. People send their children to a particular school for a reason and parental involvement is strong.
I think people need to keep schools and education in perspective. "School" is not about whether or not you can play violin. Maybe it's just me, but I don't loose any sleep in WCPSS because we don't have violin as part of the regular curriculum. I don't think my children won't get into a good college, have a prosperous career or be any less of valuable person because they don't have access to various electives. If it were that important to me, we'd be doing it outside of school at the elementary level anyway, just like we do our other activities.
the ONLY thing that bothers me is the lack of foreign language at some middle schools , but looking over the Johnston county curriculum website, I don't see either of these as regular offerings at the middle or elementary school level. They say the same thing as WCPSS...that they offer the basic NC course of study. Is it individual schools that offer violin or all of them? ALso, do they provide all of the violins or is it an elective? Just curious because I couldn't find anything about it except for the AIG center. I also couldn't find anything about foreign language starting in elementary and middle school. Is this county wide or individual schools?
It's not about the violin or band or orchestra it's about inequality. It's about having those options....it's about being able to choose whether or not your child participates in ELECTIVES. Having the opportunity to choose at all schools is the point. Either all or none have electives so you don't have thread upon thread upon thread of people asking which school teaches violin or spanish or french or underwater basket weaving or whatever. Yes there are going to be differences in schools in test scores and such but for god sakes most school systems have similar curriculum or again am I wrong? You complain about over crowding and poorer parts of the county and having to bus people around and it's the fault of a) the county first and foremost for creating this mess in the first place and b) only a handful of schools being decent so everyone moves there so prices of homes goes up so people who are less affluent cannot afford to live near the "good schools" and their kids suffer and then are not passing their grade level and then are out dealing or stealing or whatever. This county is not poor. This state is not poor, the companies that are around are not poor. What this school system needs is someone who knows how to raise money and someone who knows how to spend money. I am probably wrong about this all and don't know anything but I do know that the reason why none of the bills to give the county money are passing because they have no clue how to spend it.
I understand your point, but having grown up this school system and having children who have gone through the system, I see it from a different perspective. The elective courses in magnets are there as a special program, not as the base curriculum. If they did away with magnets totally in WCPSS, would you be happy with the base curriculum? Because if you want to go back to "neighborhood schools" then there is no need for magnets or electives like advanced chess, Latin IX, cake decorating, hip hop dance, forensic science and violin. It leaves the base, core curriculum. The NC standard course of study. You need to stop comparing electives in various schools. So they have orchestra in one school and animal science in another? Doesn't matter. Can they all read and write? Are their math scores on par with the rest of the state? That matters. The only thing I have ever routinely complained about is that I believe foreign languages should be offered in every school in the county starting in the 6th grade.
I just don't get the focus on elective offerings. As long as the kids come out of school knowing math, science, history, reading and writing, is that seriously not enough? WHen you strip away the froo froo programs, are all of the schools on more equal footing? I could really care less about the electives. I went to all magnet schools in WCPSS. There are a handful of kids who are talented enough in certain areas like violin, dance, computers, math etc to make the programs worthwhile and to attract those kids downtown. Most of the electives are a waste of resources on the majority of students and for the average kid, they were more of a diversion than a benefit.
WHen I went to Ligon, we picked electives based on who was teaching it and how cool we thought they were. Geez, I took MODELING at Ligon when I went there, and a chess class where we never even played chess. What a waste of 90 minutes out of an academic day! I don't even rememebr what the heck else I took there because most of the elective course I took were not beneficial later in life
And BTW, I've never complained about overcrowding.
This whole topic is interesting. I currently live in CT, which is supposedly big-spenders on schools and has a good rep...and very high taxes...and my kids' elementary school didn't offer violin (strings) for decades (they abolished the program when 'I' was a kid) and only started offering it in the last few years because of the funding from a generous rich lady who bequeathed a bunch of $ to the schools for it. I, the parent, pay for the instrument and pay for the lessons, so it's not free.
They don't have foreign language either. My son's HS doesn't offer it till 11th grade.
So for someone like me looking to move to Wake county, your schools are looking pretty good!
A) If one school has the opportunity to have electives they all should
B) If a school only has the "core" curriculum then that school should have the best scores because they are focusing on only the "core" curriculum and don't have those "distractions" you were talking about
C) This school system promotes and advertises inequality in the school system by bussing kids all over the place instead of putting that money back into the schools, stepping back from their issues and taking an outside look, getting some type of financial consulting because they need it.
D) They set themselves up for this failure and you SHOULD be complaining about overcrowding just as everyone should.
Do parents have to pay for their kids to go to magnet schools (I really don't know). I remember reading about this school lottery WCPSS has. Does that involve the magnet schools? That right there shows that the county realizes how bad certain schools are so it promotes the fighting and craziness by having this "lottery" instead of figuring out a way to make people passionate about EVERY school and cleaning up the ones people try to avoid.
It's not about which electives they get but that they get them and if they don't then according to your logic, which makes sense, there are no distracting electives hence children's scores should be better.
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and some others I can't remember. Art and music start in kindergarten. At the elementary level the specials are art, music, library, health and PE. The middle school has an "intramural" program where the kids can sign up to do anything from dodgeball to chess, to homework club, newspaper, and a whole host of other things. The 4th and 5th grades have something similar with flag football added in there. Intramurals are all after school programs. The middle school has a football, hockey, volleyball and hockey team. This is in addition to the town youth sports leagues. Our high school has jazz band, choir, orchestra, etc. as well as a pretty comprehensive curriculum for a small school. They only offer 3 languages (French, Spanish and Latin) but the kids are able take online courses during designated school periods. Seniors have an independent study project ("senior project"). 
