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Family of four with two elementary school-aged kids. Have been researching the NC Triangle area for relocation potential.
We own our own home here in CT and have never done the HOA thing. I'm trying to dig more into HOA vs non-HOA home-ownership. I want to weigh the pros and cons... I think I'd like the idea of living in a friendly, active community which has its own pool, for example, but wonder whether the community's fees and covenant are worth this.
I'd love to hear from people who live in the Triangle area, particularly towns like Apex, Cary, Wake Forest, Holly Springs, Fuquay Varina, Clayton, who live in HOA communities/subdivisions. Which is your community/subdivision? How much are your fees? What do they cover? Do you think the common fees are worth it and why? What has been your experience living in your community/subdivision? How do you feel about the HOA? About the covenant? How restrictive are they? What are the positives and negatives?
I'd also love to hear from folks who live in these areas, who live in homes that are not HOA and/or covenant. Do you experience a good sense of community, friendliness, activity, and easily accessible amenities-- without the HOA? If you live in one of the Triangle towns I named above or one like it, do you regularly make use of town/'neighborhood' swimming pools? Are such pools conveniently located? Do you find them to be satisfactory? Are they too crowded?...
And if you've lived in both types of homes, would you please compare and contrast the experiences?
HOA fees can range from $10 per month up to hundreds. There are varying levels of amenities the HOA may cover, varying levels of covenant enforcement, etc.
In the Triangle area as a general rule, neighborhoods with HOA tend to hold their value better because you have a better guarantee that nothing too bizarre will happen. The neighborhoods without HOA may still be quite nice but there is not much preventing one rotten apple from spoiling the bunch. In some neighborhoods without HOA you may see one or more of the following:
- Exterior home additions, perhaps neglect or choices of material or design that do not blend well with the existing homes, weird paint colors, cheap siding. ugly fences, etc.
- Junk cars parked in the yard, riff-raff street parkers, etc. Boats/campers etc parked in places that take away the visual appeal of the area
- Basketball goals in the street, gaudy colored toys or yarn ornaments constantly in the yard
- Crappy looking, neglected or overgrown lawns or someone creates an inappropriate garden in their front yard
- Garages / sheds / awnings that do not match the primary structure
- Tacky looking signs or flag supporting sports teams
- Cages full of animals in their backyard
- Other indications of poorly educated or mentally ill residents.
None of that matters much if out in rural areas where the overall look of one property does not affect those around it because it's not visible, but in the typical subdivision in this area, it matters in huge amounts, because all it takes is one d-bag to lower the property values of those around them.
I'm sure you'll see opposing opinions. Some people feel HOAs are oppressive, and to be fair there are plenty of homeowners who want the freedom to do whatever they want with their property, and are simultaneously responsible enough to be considerate of their neighbors or to exercise that freedom tastefully. The problem is that without an HOA, you have a RISK of one person coming along that is not responsible, and that single person can cause major problems for the rest of the neighborhood.
We moved to Cary in 2012. (Originally from Long Island) This is my first HOA experience and it has been great.
We live in a large townhome in Cary Park. The Cary Park HOA fee is $35 per month. I also pay $110 to our townhome association. In my opinion it is well worth it. The CP fee covers the common areas, soccer field, playgrounds and Covered BBQ area with grill. We also have a paved 2 mile trail that goes around the lake.
The $110 covers all of our TH landscape, snow removal, roof, siding and just about anything exterior.
We also have a clubhouse and 2 pools (zero entry pool with a big slide and a bigger pool that also hosts our swim team. We live there in the summer and I mean everyday. It has plenty of wonderful lifeguards. They have parties with DJs a couple of times a year. It is very friendly and alot of fun. We also have my daughter's BDay parties there and they are very nice. The pool is optional and not included in the $35.(I think we pay about $320 for the season yearly)
All that said, we did not even consider buying a non HOA house because we knew we wanted the pool and social aspects. We didn't set out to buy a TH in particular, but it was beautiful and fit our needs well. Glad we did because I love the way the kids call for each other and play outside everyday after school. We also occasionally have little neighbor block parties which are fun.
The other thing about non HOA homes is that they are kind of free to do as they wish with their properties. So that can mean a bunch of old cars, piles of tires and a toilet bowl or 2 sitting in the yard. Yes, I have seen it in Cary.
Best of luck to you!
I'd love to hear from people who live in the Triangle area, particularly towns like Apex, Cary, Wake Forest, Holly Springs, Fuquay Varina, Clayton, who live in HOA communities/subdivisions.
You've picked some high-growth areas, which means many of the neighborhoods are going to be newer, which in turn means they are required to have stormwater management facilities - which necessitates having an HOA to at a minimum own and maintain those facilities.
The vast majority of people here have no issues with HOAs.
Note that restrictive covenants are something the property developer puts in place - not the HOA. The HOA is often (but not always) given power to enforce those covenants once the developer pulls out.
Note also that HOAs are Associations. Of. Homeowners. It's self-government by you and your neighbors.
Most residential lots have "covenants," or deed restrictions that are attached to the land.
This is true whether or not there is an HOA to enforce covenants.
I.e., we have no HOA in our neighborhood, but there are covenants. I am restricted from having chickens, parking a big truck, installing a fence in the front yard, and a handful of other common restrictions.
In lieu of an HOA, the covenants are enforced by homeowners, who can sue if desired to force compliance.
No Hoa here in our central Cary, older neighborhood Would never, ever consider one! Did I mention ever? never? ever!!!
we have a community swim club half a mile away, town of Cary clears roads within 24 hours. But we're the kind of people who would rather see a toilet in the front yard over the type of people who would complain about one. you gotta pick your poison around here.
Just let a couple of little tyrants get in control, and it all falls apart. You get little idiots walking around with clipboards and rulers measuring the lawn heights and making sure your trash can is not visible from the street.
Since board members and rules can change, HOA is an open-ended path to removal of ownership rights.
Would be better if the city or town would tax residents and maintain storm water facilities.
My landlord gives us more freedom than many HOA's.
Just let a couple of little tyrants get in control, and it all falls apart. You get little idiots walking around with clipboards and rulers measuring the lawn heights and making sure your trash can is not visible from the street.
Since board members and rules can change, HOA is an open-ended path to removal of ownership rights.
Would be better if the city or town would tax residents and maintain storm water facilities.
My landlord gives us more freedom than many HOA's.
If you are looking for newer housing you are going to have an HOA whether u like it or not. They have been required on new construction subdivisions for awhile.
We moved here from LI and have had no issues. You should get a copy if the covenants to see how restrictive they are for any neighborhood you look at. Ours aren't too restrictive where it makes life hard and people are fairly easy going .... On the other hand they are there when you need them. Ours are $150 a quarter. I've got no issues with the price.
CHTransplant, thank you for pointing out that newer neighborhoods are required to have stormwater management facilities, necessitating HOA's to own and maintain those facilities.
CHTransplant / twingles, do you know what year it was that HOA's started being required for subdivisions?
MikeJaquish, in your neighborhood's example if you have no HOA but you do have a covenant, does this mean that home-buyer signs the covenant (agreeing to the stipulations), and then if you 'break a rule', one or more of the other homeowners in your neighborhood can sue you if they choose? Do you know whether this kind of arrangement tends to be any less oppressive than one in which a HOA 'governs'?
lauradrops, sounds great!
I'd like to find some place that provides convenience, friendliness, activity, etc. balanced with some level of privacy, and well, freedom- (not overly 'nit-picky')...
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