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There are different "types" of buildings from a fireproofing perspective. Single family houses and smaller apartment complexes (three stories or less, generally) are considered to be "Type V" with little or no consideration given to fireproofing. "Type III" is what you will find these wood framed apartment buildings are. Yes they use wood, but the wood is fire rated/tested/etc.
Even steel- and concrete- framed buildings can burn, btw. It's just a matter of how fast the fire can spread. Of course as mentioned before, when they are unfinished, they can burn quickly, but when finished, these Type III buildings are pretty safe. You're probably safer in one of those than you are in your single-family house with zero fireproofing and no fire suppression system at all.
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Next thing to note, when I graduated college in 2005, I wanted to go car free for a while and live in or near downtown, and ride the bus to work, but there was NOTHING modern available. The only apartment complexes were the old 1930s era buildings on Hillsborough Street like Cameron Court or Raleigh Apartments by Cameron Village. Most of the units in those buildings had NO AC at the time. There were a few condos up for rent but they were unrealistically expensive (presumably due to demand way exceeding supply.)
I view this apartment building boom as filling a lot of long-standing, unmet demand. To me, suburban apartment complexes are the worst of both worlds. You share walls, ceilings, and floors with neighbors, but you get nothing in return. If you're going deal with those hassles, you might as well get something in return by living in a walkable neighborhood.
Besides, there are thousands of single-family detached houses and townhomes going up all the time out in West Cary, Wake Forest, Northwest Raleigh, Knightdale, and elsewhere, and I don't see anybody saying "Ooh, it's a boom, it's too much, how can we sustain this!?!?" Nor do I really see anybody questioning the suburban apartment complexes going up in Brier Creek, Triangle Town Center, or on Davis Drive in Cary. It's just that all this construction in and near downtown seems like a lot because it's concentrated in a smaller area. Not to mention that this is the first time ever since the Triangle's meteoric growth started in the 1960s, that central Raleigh has been absorbing even a measurable percentage of the region's growth so this is unfamiliar territory to us.
There are different "types" of buildings from a fireproofing perspective. Single family houses and smaller apartment complexes (three stories or less, generally) are considered to be "Type V" with little or no consideration given to fireproofing. "Type III" is what you will find these wood framed apartment buildings are. Yes they use wood, but the wood is fire rated/tested/etc.
Even steel- and concrete- framed buildings can burn, btw. It's just a matter of how fast the fire can spread. Of course as mentioned before, when they are unfinished, they can burn quickly, but when finished, these Type III buildings are pretty safe. You're probably safer in one of those than you are in your single-family house with zero fireproofing and no fire suppression system at all.
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Next thing to note, when I graduated college in 2005, I wanted to go car free for a while and live in or near downtown, and ride the bus to work, but there was NOTHING modern available. The only apartment complexes were the old 1930s era buildings on Hillsborough Street like Cameron Court or Raleigh Apartments by Cameron Village. Most of the units in those buildings had NO AC at the time. There were a few condos up for rent but they were unrealistically expensive (presumably due to demand way exceeding supply.)
I view this apartment building boom as filling a lot of long-standing, unmet demand. To me, suburban apartment complexes are the worst of both worlds. You share walls, ceilings, and floors with neighbors, but you get nothing in return. If you're going deal with those hassles, you might as well get something in return by living in a walkable neighborhood.
Besides, there are thousands of single-family detached houses and townhomes going up all the time out in West Cary, Wake Forest, Northwest Raleigh, Knightdale, and elsewhere, and I don't see anybody saying "Ooh, it's a boom, it's too much, how can we sustain this!?!?" Nor do I really see anybody questioning the suburban apartment complexes going up in Brier Creek, Triangle Town Center, or on Davis Drive in Cary. It's just that all this construction in and near downtown seems like a lot because it's concentrated in a smaller area. Not to mention that this is the first time ever since the Triangle's meteoric growth started in the 1960s, that central Raleigh has been absorbing even a measurable percentage of the region's growth so this is unfamiliar territory to us.
Good post.
However, I bump into plenty of people who question the desirability and sustainability of West Cary development.
Of course, DT Raleigh is a different story, a different animal.
Would you pay true market price, and amortization, for a unit built to your personal criteria?
And, truly, do you believe that there is such a thing as a "fireproof" multi-unit residential building?
I would pay a fair price for a fire resistant (not fireproof) building remembering 911 and the eventual collapse of the World Trade Center from burning jet fuel. Nothing's perfect but no tinderbox.
Better leave out the glitzy junk and build it safe. Over the additional useful years of a solid building's life, the cost could be amortized.
As with my NYC project, tax breaks could be awarded to builders who build safely and provide affordable units.
We must smash "gentrification" before middle income residents and businesses fall by the side as in NYC where yuppies have infested almost all of Manhattan and many outer borough communities only a few subway stops from Manhattan.
People have been so squeezed by the infestation, they may soon try to pollute my grandparents' area of East NY, Brooklyn.
If so, the undertakers will have a great year. That area and Far Rockaway are still too rough to attract the yuppie scourge.
Last edited by saturnfan; 05-29-2015 at 08:58 AM..
These new four and five story wood construction techniques still seem somewhat experimental. While the building code allows it, it doesn't mean that it's a great idea. Engineers are trying to calculate how much the wood will shrink over time, and how that will affect the structural integrity, and balance that with the fact that the masonry veneer will expand over time. It seems like a lot of new variables to consider.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how these apartment buildings perform structurally. I really do hope that good engineering decisions have been made, and that these buildings still hold up well 20+ years from now.
These new four and five story wood construction techniques still seem somewhat experimental. While the building code allows it, it doesn't mean that it's a great idea. Engineers are trying to calculate how much the wood will shrink over time, and how that will affect the structural integrity, and balance that with the fact that the masonry veneer will expand over time. It seems like a lot of new variables to consider.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how these apartment buildings perform structurally. I really do hope that good engineering decisions have been made, and that these buildings still hold up well 20+ years from now.
I'm sure the lousy engineering and lax building codes will doom this crap to a short useful life. Just watch "Engineering Disasters" on the History Channel to see our great new engineering at work.
These new four and five story wood construction techniques still seem somewhat experimental. While the building code allows it, it doesn't mean that it's a great idea. Engineers are trying to calculate how much the wood will shrink over time, and how that will affect the structural integrity, and balance that with the fact that the masonry veneer will expand over time. It seems like a lot of new variables to consider.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how these apartment buildings perform structurally. I really do hope that good engineering decisions have been made, and that these buildings still hold up well 20+ years from now.
I claim my Honorary Engineering degree, having graduated from dear old NC State....
Do you think the engineering continues to advance, thus becoming superior, or was maximized 50-70 years ago?
I can only assume with computer modeling and many other perceived advancements, that actual advancement has occurred as well. I can definitely say that in residential construction, they frame the loads much better today than they did 50-70 years ago.
We certainly are using lesser materials today. "Old growth hardwoods" are gone, replaced by dimensional lumber. Engineered dimensional lumber.
I'm sure the lousy engineering and lax building codes will doom this crap to a short useful life. Just watch "Engineering Disasters" on the History Channel to see our great new engineering at work.
I would like to think that lessons have been learned from the past and that engineering methods/materials continue to advance with continued research.......but I'm an engineer so I am biased in that I give professional structural engineers the benefit of the doubt.
This thread is so ridiculous to me. According to the city detached single family homes still make up nearly half of the housing supply, within the city proper. Apartments, townhouses, condos, duplexes and triplexes combined barely make up the majority. Yeah, the majority of new construction is apartments or townhomes but calling Raleigh a "city of apartment complexes" is really crazy.
I can't argue against building more housing when there is a demand. It's not like these apartment complexes are sitting empty once they're built. If you artificially curb the supply you'll just push up demand and rent prices. Then people will really have something to be upset about. The population is growing folks. You can hold your breath and stomp your feet but you can't stop it. Better planning is always part of the solution, but pretending that stopping growth is an option is akin to sticking your head in the sand.
IMHO It's actually good to have a lot of apartments. I live in SoCal there is a terrible shortage of apartments, which are in great demand, vacancy levels are at like 2% which basically means no vacancies...so the rents have skyrocketed and pushing the middle class out. San Diego was a better place overall where there were more available apartments with reasonable rents. I've lived here a very long time and have seen the growing pains of a region....what you are starting to experience now.
Someone posted earlier "We must smash "gentrification" before middle income residents and businesses fall by the side"...wish we could smash it but that genie is out of the bottle I'm afraid. At least until it becomes uncool and the millennials get married, have kids, move to the burbs like all previous generations.
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