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I thought you weren’t going to reply after your last post?
I’m not going to have a conversation between a single other poster back & forth of arguing. Substance or multiple participants, yes. A one on one conversation is better served through PM’s.
Hope that clears up your confusion. And feel free to reply to the substance of my post on why I think Raleigh (or Indianapolis or Columbus for that matter) May not be the strongest choices for HQ2 vs. some of the bigger cities on the list (Washington, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago) and ignoring other cities that would also be great matches and still a solid place for HQ2 (Dallas, Miami, LA)
Last edited by Charlotte485; 07-08-2018 at 05:22 PM..
LOL. Why would you "want" them to come to DC so badly that you would troll a Triangle forum? I understand how the prospect of Amazon to DC could be seen as a boring choice. There probably wouldn't be a noticeable difference in the day to day life of a DC resident.
I disagree. Amazon would have an impact to DC residents. DC is not NYC where 8 million residents could easily absorb 50k more over 10 years. The population for DC proper is not even over 700k residents so far.
Also, help me to understand how a DC location for Amazon HQ2 would be any more boring than a Raleigh location? As I understand, the RTP area already has major IT companies throughout the region. What's one more?
If there wasn't so much fanfare with the Amazon HQ2, I'm sure Amazon could move to Raleigh without much notice. Simply because many believe the RTP area is already attractive to tech companies and millennials. Amazon fits into the RTP tech ecosystem.
Now, I agree that the impact would be greater in Raleigh than in DC. But both would be impacted and residents would feel that impact. To be honest, gentrification would be one of those impacts in both cities.
I would disagree on the absorption. The DC Metro Pop is the 6th largest in the country. I think DC could absorb 50k additional over 10 years without a problem, certainly much easier than Raleigh or one of the smaller metros. It would be much more expensive for Amazon, but they have the money if that's what they want.
I think the larger cities are more boring from the standpoint that Amazon would immediately be the most dominant player on the future growth of any of the smaller metros. Amazon could turn Anacostia into the next Alexandria, Arlington, Pentagon City or Amazon City, but it's not going to change the fabric of DC. If you visit DC, you still might miss Amazon entirely. As some have noted on this thread, Amazon would easily become the most dominant entity in Raleigh by a very wide margin, probably moreso than the state government. It would have more influence than all of the other major downtown employers combined. You wouldn't be able to visit Raleigh without being smacked in the face with Amazon's presence. DC will always be dominated by the Federal government, even if Amazon moves there.
I think Amazon to RTP would be just as boring as selecting one of the large cities. There is capacity in RTP for Amazon HQ2. There have been other large employers in RTP with close to the numbers Amazon has proposed. Raleigh isn't RTP though, and the metro area is much more disconnected than what you have with DC. Raleigh is more interesting to me because you're talking about such a small urban core area being nearly doubled in size by one employer through a planned 10 year growth period. The planning issues associated with bringing that level of development here are staggering. It could be done but it's unprecedented in recent US history, which is the main reason I think Amazon will pass on to DC or Denver.
I would disagree on the absorption. The DC Metro Pop is the 6th largest in the country. I think DC could absorb 50k additional over 10 years without a problem, certainly much easier than Raleigh or one of the smaller metros. It would be much more expensive for Amazon, but they have the money if that's what they want.
I think the larger cities are more boring from the standpoint that Amazon would immediately be the most dominant player on the future growth of any of the smaller metros. Amazon could turn Anacostia into the next Alexandria, Arlington, Pentagon City or Amazon City, but it's not going to change the fabric of DC. If you visit DC, you still might miss Amazon entirely. As some have noted on this thread, Amazon would easily become the most dominant entity in Raleigh by a very wide margin, probably moreso than the state government. It would have more influence than all of the other major downtown employers combined. You wouldn't be able to visit Raleigh without being smacked in the face with Amazon's presence. DC will always be dominated by the Federal government, even if Amazon moves there.
I think Amazon to RTP would be just as boring as selecting one of the large cities. There is capacity in RTP for Amazon HQ2. There have been other large employers in RTP with close to the numbers Amazon has proposed. Raleigh isn't RTP though, and the metro area is much more disconnected than what you have with DC. Raleigh is more interesting to me because you're talking about such a small urban core area being nearly doubled in size by one employer through a planned 10 year growth period. The planning issues associated with bringing that level of development here are staggering. It could be done but it's unprecedented in recent US history, which is the main reason I think Amazon will pass on to DC or Denver.
One of the reasons why I think Raleigh may have a unique appeal to Amazon is due to the availabilty and location of a couple of prime sites. I know that a lot of people would be against the idea, but Dix would be an excellent location for HQ2. There is plenty of space for Amazon to erect a 20-25 building campus, while still retaining the prime spots for public park and event space, which was Raleigh's ultimate plan for that site.
I'm not sure what sites Amazon is considering in other cities, but the site that they are considering in Raleigh hasn't been publicly disclosed. I highly suspect it is either the Dix site or something close by the centennial campus.
These two articles touch on things that I believe:
Atlanta vs. Raleigh on affordability post Amazon and who can absorb, who has more available housing and ATL’s housing growing nearly double the growth or Raleigh. Atlanta & Dallas are the best of both worlds IMO for what Amazon is looking for. Affordable. Large work force. Large mass transit networks. Urbanish. https://www.wraltechwire.com/2018/07...bution-center/
And also as I believe, the biggest plus, or the differentiator that sets Raleigh apart from the other HQ2 finalist, according to this WRAL for Raleigh is simply being the cheapest place to do business.
Quote:
RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK – If Amazon is looking for lower-cost rates for office space, Raleigh-Durham rates as a very reasonable option among the major metropolitan areas being considered for the HQ2 project. Apple may have already decided cheaper rents is one reasons why it is reportedly nearing the selection of the Triangle for a new campus.
.....
“That’s what you call a competitive differentiator,” declared Charles Hayes, the former longtime CEO of the Research Triangle Regional Partnership, when told about the numbers. “That’s big dollars – huge!”
These two articles touch on things that I believe:
Atlanta vs. Raleigh on affordability post Amazon and who can absorb, who has more available housing and ATL’s housing growing nearly double the growth or Raleigh. Atlanta & Dallas are the best of both worlds IMO for what Amazon is looking for. Affordable. Large work force. Large mass transit networks. Urbanish. https://www.wraltechwire.com/2018/07...bution-center/
And also as I believe, the biggest plus, or the differentiator that sets Raleigh apart from the other HQ2 finalist, according to this WRAL for Raleigh is simply being the cheapest place to do business.
Low cost may be a differentiator, but how is it weighted by Amazon? If low cost was the most important factor for Amazon, locations in the NE and West Coast wouldn't be in the final list. It's not difficult to find cost-of-living rates statistics. It wouldn't have been an easy choice for Amazon to simply pick the lowest cost location.
I think people need to keep focused on what location can server Amazon's future business needs such as pharmaceuticals, etc. Not just low-cost of living or housing stock.
What areas can support where Amazon wants to be in 15 years in terms of new products and services? That area may not offer the cheapest housing costs, but gives Amazon what it needs to launch into its next endeavor.
Rents may be cheaper, but if Amazon or Apple were to build a campus here, they would undoubtably have a spec book a foot thick, lots of business controls requirements and involve some of the large property and construction management firms that would drive the costs up higher than off the shelf buildings.
They may have determining factors that eventually rule locations out, but I think the final selection will be based on a wide combination of factors. There are also many site specific considerations that will be weighed.
I think Raleigh is probably still on the list because the Spring Hill tract is such a unique site. It's on the NCSU Centennial campus, adjacent to the train station, the BRT line that was recently funded, and also next to one of the largest urban park projects in the country. Add in cost of living, lower development costs, lower taxes, less traffic and the proximity to RTP and you have a decent case for an HQ2 site.
Just as I'm sure there are intangibles and strengths/weaknesses at all of the final 20. I don't think it's going to come down to this City has the most workers, this City has the best culture, or this one has the best transit. The amount of Due Diligence going into this is enormous. I would expect them to have full design studies for each of the available sites before they announce the selection.
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