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Yes many teachers have after school responsibilities, but a good compromise to not screw over a million parents, would be to at least get through the school day.
As for those far away that couldn't make it in time, that's unfortunate I guess. The point will still be made.
Love your thinking, encourage the teachers to protest but only when it's convenient for everyone else.
You do understand the main purpose of a protest is to agitate to the highest degree possible, right?
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Originally Posted by twingles
Teacher workday just this past Friday. Would have been a great day for a rally. Every county has 'em. Pretty much the entire 9th grade is failing math due to the new curriculum, and my daughter's teacher left with no notice because of it, but sure take a day off with finals just weeks away. I guess it's ok though because WCPSS solution to the math problem is grade everyone on a massive curve to get them to pass, even though no one is learning anything.
Did you ever deal with teacher protests while still on Long Island? They would start by wearing protest t-shirts on certain high-visibility days (e.g., Halloween so the parents could see them during the days events) making everyone uncomfortable. They would then arrange for a sick-out leaving the school woefully understaffed without any advance notice.
It was awful, made all the more so because the average teachers salary during our time with children in school was around $85k annually before factoring in that it was for ten months and also included a healthy retirement pension.
As for our local teachers, if they used their recent workday to rally (forgetting that their intended audience wouldn't be there on Friday), the work they typically get done would still need to be done but at a different time, likely on their own time.
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Originally Posted by NCviaMD
I have heard that these supplies that are provided by parents are kept in a closet and at the end of the school year the teachers take them home for themselves and use any household type items for themselves. Don't have any clue if this is true or not but why do teachers ask for supplies every year? Do they not have anything left over from the prior school year?
I've heard that too. I heard they take the leftover supplies and sell them online, pocket the money without reporting it even to the IRS and then use the proceeds to finance their secret high-end lifestyles. I bet that most teachers only claim to live in modest one-bedroom apartments or struggle to pay their mortgage on a too-small 50 year old fixer upper and instead are enjoying the high life in brand new construction somewhere......
DISCLAIMER: I am not a teacher, nor am I married to one or have any in my immediate family.
What I am is someone who places a true value on the impact teachers have had on my children and myself. I can remember the names and faces of every good/great teacher I'd ever had, some going back nearly fifty years at this point. These are people who can either positively or negatively alter the course of a young persons life and we should all be at least supporting their efforts to obtain fair pay, and perhaps even be standing alongside them at whatever rally they organize. But heck, if it will help all the entitled parents who can't be inconvenienced by our educators standing up for their rights at a rally to be even a little supportive, I'll take a day off from work and substitute in a classroom so they don't have to worry about spending time with their own children.
Pulled from the thread last year, here were my calculations on the value of the pension program:
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If you live to 90 that's a 900k post-tax benefit for 25 years of work. I believe the pension contribution is 6% - if you made 60k your entire 25 year teaching career (which is unlikely), your contribution would be 90k.
I don't know of any other business where you can blow your customers off for a day, all while costing them money, and it be ok.
What is your definition of a fair salary for teachers? Should things like 3 months off per year, and a nice pension be taken into consideration?
You lost me when you compared my children to customers. True, I pay the tax bill and so you can argue that I'm actually the so-called customer in this relationship. But the truer relationship is between the educator and their students.
Teachers do not work for me, I'm not their customer; they owe me nothing. The way vast majority of people standing on their feet for six plus hours every day to try and shape and cultivate the minds of the next generation do so because they view it as important work. For many of them it's a calling, not a way to pay bills. They don't feel like paid employees or compensated professionals, they are doing something they both love and feel is important work, but only because it is.
You can choose to view this as a simple financial transaction and marginalize the issues all of our educators struggle with as a labor dispute, but for most of those I've come to know in my life, it's really just a cry for help so that they can continue to teach without falling woefully behind financially.
It's not a nine month per year job, it's more like ten plus months (use your visible digits and count from mid-August to mid-June, or a calculator in case you had lousy teachers). Then add an additional five hours per week along the way and divide by forty and you'll wind up way closer to another months worth of unpaid time. I can calculate that sort of number in my head because again, I had effective math teachers at a young age.
Until our teachers can afford a simple mortgage and car payment while still being able to enjoy eating foods intended for healthy adults, we're failing them. And by failing them we're also failing our children and their parents.
And by the way, so many of our teachers who would be protesting, if not the majority, also have children in the same schools systems where they teach and so their rally day is also a major inconvenience for them too. But until others are willing to stand up for them, they have to stand up for themselves.
So yes, I'm perfectly okay with what they're doing to force change.
You lost me when you compared my children to customers. True, I pay the tax bill and so you can argue that I'm actually the so-called customer in this relationship. But the truer relationship is between the educator and their students.
Teachers do not work for me, I'm not their customer; they owe me nothing. The way vast majority of people standing on their feet for six plus hours every day to try and shape and cultivate the minds of the next generation do so because they view it as important work. For many of them it's a calling, not a way to pay bills. They don't feel like paid employees or compensated professionals, they are doing something they both love and feel is important work, but only because it is.
You can choose to view this as a simple financial transaction and marginalize the issues all of our educators struggle with as a labor dispute, but for most of those I've come to know in my life, it's really just a cry for help so that they can continue to teach without falling woefully behind financially.
It's not a nine month per year job, it's more like ten plus months (use your visible digits and count from mid-August to mid-June, or a calculator in case you had lousy teachers). Then add an additional five hours per week along the way and divide by forty and you'll wind up way closer to another months worth of unpaid time. I can calculate that sort of number in my head because again, I had effective math teachers at a young age.
Until our teachers can afford a simple mortgage and car payment while still being able to enjoy eating foods intended for healthy adults, we're failing them. And by failing them we're also failing our children and their parents.
And by the way, so many of our teachers who would be protesting, if not the majority, also have children in the same schools systems where they teach and so their rally day is also a major inconvenience for them too. But until others are willing to stand up for them, they have to stand up for themselves.
So yes, I'm perfectly okay with what they're doing to force change.
You skipped the pension part - what are your thoughts on that?
I have children in the public schools, and I am very pro-education and always vote for education. I will happily pay more in taxes to relieve school crowding, fix schools, and improve educational programs. That being said, I just don't happen to agree with the opinion that teachers are underpaid when you take into account the entire compensation package. I understand they aren't exactly living large when you look at their base salary alone, but there are some great benefits that conveniently get ignored when talking about "pay". It's all about looking at the compensation package as a whole - I'm all for increased base salary if other benefits are adjusted accordingly. At the end of the day, a benefit like a guaranteed pension is a HUGE BENEFIT, and it's ridiculous to not take that into consideration, or the number of actual work days per year.
When I start a new job, I don't just look at the base pay - that would be crazy. I look at base pay, paid time off, work/life balance, bonuses, retirement benefits, health benefits, etc, etc. Base pay is usually pretty meaningless.
As for teacher time off, my 3 months estimate wasn't just summer vacation - it also included vacations during the school year, as well as holidays. It's probably over 3 months after all is said and done, but it's not important enough to navigate the calendar.
I've heard that too. I heard they take the leftover supplies and sell them online, pocket the money without reporting it even to the IRS
Going to now have to start scanning Ebay and the local pawn stores at night to see where all those dry erase markers and boxes of tissues that we are constantly sending in end up :-)
I actually think teachers are under-paid, the problem I have with the teaching profession (like some others) is that pay is not tied to performance. You have the amazing teachers, working nights, weekends, spending their own money on supplies who are very underpaid. Then you have the teacher doing the absolute minimum to get by, with full knowledge that they will be able to grind out an entire career doing the bare minimum without consequence. They also do it with knowledge that they will get paid the same as the all-in teacher that everyone loves. The response to that complaint is usually that, well, how do you judge teacher performance? It's a profession like many others, if the school principal doesn't know the all-stars from the duds, they aren't exactly a very good manager.
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