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My daughter is an IVF baby. We tried for two years to get pregnant and when it didn't happen, went through 3 IUI sessions and when those didn't work, we did IVF (thank goodness for insurance and my employer in MA at the time, which is required to cover fertility treatments to sell a policy there; we were out of pocket for meds and doc visits co pays)
A family friend of ours attacked both my wife and I for "playing god". "If god wanted you to get pregnant, he would will it. Apparently he doesn't want you to get pregnant and using modern medicine to get around that is sin".
So, given the logic based smartass I am, I replied with the following.
"Thank you for your concern [family friend's name]. While I am saddened that you think we are living in sin, I certainly respect your right to that opinion. Tell me though, if we're living in sin by using modern medicine to reach our goal....are you also living in sin by taking Oral Birth Control? Seems that too would also be "playing god" wouldn't it"?
Needless to say that line of questioning was never given an actual response. Self reflection can be tough for some people.
here's the thing about all your stories though.
Everyone ultimately got to do what they want. If some people want to have retrograde our fundie views they are entitled to follow their bliss. Do the people in your anecdotes deserved to be canceled?
Everyone ultimately got to do what they want. If some people want to have retrograde our fundie views they are entitled to follow their bliss. Do the people in your anecdotes deserved to be canceled?
Does the person in that story deserved to be cancelled? What does "cancelled" mean in the context of the story I shared?
I can say I live my life generally in the following way. I live by the Golden Rule of treating people the way I would want to be treated, Live and let live if you will. My best friend from HS is a lesbian, happily married to her wife in a marriage that 90% of straight couples I know don't have the same level of love and happiness that they do. I am no one's judge and jury and as such, my personal beliefs are mine, just as theirs or yours are theirs and yours. Who am I to project things I hold dear and foundational to my existence in the cosmos onto someone else when their beliefs could be completely different than mine?
Having said that, I am also completely comfortable with not being friends with everyone. As I tell my kids, it is completely OK to go through life accepting that there will be people you like and people you don't and there will be people that like you and those that don't.
I have no time in my life for broad swaths of people. People who do s***ty things to people and specifically I have even less time for people who abuse animals, children, the elderly or the infirm. People who sanctimoniously pontificate about the actions of others while not living up to the very standards they are projecting onto others is another group I have no time for. And I have no time for people who use their faith (whatever that faith may be) as a weaponized tool to attack others. So, in this context, I did "cancel" that friend. She is free to continue to believe that my wife and I are some godless heathens to her heart's content. For her sake, I hope she hasn't spent too much time thinking about it because at the end of the day we are really insignificant people in the broad scheme of things.
But yes, you have every right to your opinions and beliefs. And I have every right to determine, with the knowledge of said beliefs and opinions, whether I want you in my life. It's literally the Free Market at work. You are free to speak your peace and I'm equally free to say "nahhhh, I'm good".
We'd be a lot better world if we could just all practice the Golden Rule.
You don't even have to believe in the Judeo-Christian God/Bible to follow that commandment. I'm sure it appears in most faiths as well, I'm just ignorant on them.
That's fine I understand. I feel on some level this whole "I accept but choose not associate with you for doing this" is intolerance in a nice package because as I said it's completely valid someone might think doing these things is putting their mortal soul at risk.
If you live in a community and want to accomodate everybody the bigger concern is if the market as a whole will accomodate these guys. And we all know that's true. Maybe tuscaloosa or something, different story.
If anything the problem cuts the other way that the market wont accomodate people with valid religious objections in ways like you just articulated.
We'd be a lot better world if we could just all practice the Golden Rule.
You don't even have to believe in the Judeo-Christian God/Bible to follow that commandment. I'm sure it appears in most faiths as well, I'm just ignorant on them.
I don't take offense to this statement but I think it's kind of opens the door to a mentality of religious discrimination. Some people take faith seriously and do things strange to most.
I want to make sure I am following your point here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hey_guy
That's fine I understand. I feel on some level this whole "I accept but choose not associate with you for doing this" is intolerance in a nice package because as I said it's completely valid someone might think doing these things is putting their mortal soul at risk.
So on some level, not associating with someone is intolerance? How? What right does anyone have to someone else's "Life currancy"? I am not a government. I am a person. I can completely and utterly cut out associations for any reason I want, no? Whether the association is a morally bankrupt person, or someone who has views I find abhorrent or in this context a person whose religious faith seemingly exists at odds with my life. If you (royal you) think that me doing X puts your mortal soul at risk....why should we associate? As long as I am not running afoul of the law, your mortal soul isn't my responsibility to upkeep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hey_guy
If you live in a community and want to accomodate everybody the bigger concern is if the market as a whole will accomodate these guys. And we all know that's true. Maybe tuscaloosa or something, different story.
If anything the problem cuts the other way that the market wont accomodate people with valid religious objections in ways like you just articulated.
I don't take offense to this statement but I think it's kind of opens the door to a mentality of religious discrimination. Some people take faith seriously and do things strange to most.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear.
If we all in the world, regardless of gender, race, religion or any other circumstance, could follow the "Golden Rule", then we'd all be better off.
There is no need for religion or faith to operate by the Golden Rule.
Private business so they can do what they want remember?
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