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They aren't going to build a billion dollar campus if they think the next sheriff is going to pepper spray Black people peacefully walking to their voting places (looking at you Alamance), nor will they build that campus in a place that has other discriminatory laws.
Google Alamance pepper spray and you’ll find all the info how people marching to polls to vote got pepper sprayed including children. Alamance county is not far from here.
Jowel - so what are you saying? These companies come for young talent who aren't going to live in Bumf*ck, NC. They are here because of city amenities, entertainment, airports, etc. And, yes, blue city politics matter. They aren't going to build a billion dollar campus if they think the next sheriff is going to pepper spray Black people peacefully walking to their voting places (looking at you Alamance), nor will they build that campus in a place that has other discriminatory laws.
They still chose Raleigh even though down town Raleigh was vandalized during last year’s less than peaceful protests
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooners9354
I don’t live in Carolinas but to the people over there what’s y’all thoughts about apple coming to North Carolina?
Great for:
Wake and Durham county tax bases
Those in the real estate field
Indirectly the entire RDU area economy
North Carolina’s reputation as a business state
Bad for:
Working class and middle class folks in Raleigh and Durham already struggling to find and pay for housing
Traffic
Exurban counties who will likely turn into suburban counties as people search for more affordable housing
My own personal situation:
Since my job does not require me to be in Durham anyone, I decided to leave at lease end mainly because the higher housing costs are already here. In one area of Raleigh I was looking rents jumped $200-300 almost overnight and if my rent is going to go up, Charlotte was a better deal as far as amenities I’m looking for-
Yes, and NC is not unique in this respect. Georgia has come to consist of three dissimilar states: metro Atlanta, a collection of regional cities (e.g. Augusta, Macon, Savannah, Brunswick), and a countryside that is deteriorating, depopulating, relatively impoverished, and in some cases angry. I think you'd find similar stories in many states.
True. But North Carolina used to be more balanced between the "have" and "have not" areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatchChile
Jowel - so what are you saying? These companies come for young talent who aren't going to live in Bumf*ck, NC. They are here because of city amenities, entertainment, airports, etc. And, yes, blue city politics matter. They aren't going to build a billion dollar campus if they think the next sheriff is going to pepper spray Black people peacefully walking to their voting places (looking at you Alamance), nor will they build that campus in a place that has other discriminatory laws.
I was responding to the OP's question asking for our opinion concerning Apple's second HQ close to RTP, which, as requested, I will try to elaborate on below.
Those are some of the type of problems I was alluding to when I mentioned "social issues", but it would be inaccurate to characterize everyone in Alamance County, and others which have much more dire conditions, as being that backwards. It's just that Alamance, like many other counties, has enough of a population who has the mentality that keeps that old guard in place and that's what keep things the way they are, which in many cases means they're moving backwards, with all kinds of reprehensible incidents like those you mention being one of the worst aspects of that. Alamance isn't even the worst example of this.
It's the people who are in those challenged areas , trying to do things to make them vibrant and relevant, that really need to be applauded, considering who and what they're up against making this difficult in their own areas, and what they are competing with. And they are there---just in lesser numbers. Less prosperous areas have always had some level of brain drain, but I sense that this has accelerated, especially in the last couple of decades in the current economic and social climate.
The Apple announcement, in an area that is already highly concentrated with wealthy, educated people, was simply a stark reminder of this.
True. But North Carolina used to be more balanced between the "have" and "have not" areas.
True. But some of that balance can be ascribed to the anomaly of tobacco income which has dissipated. Cities like Rocky Mount would have been in for hard times even if the Triangle and metro Charlotte had not prospered. Same story for cities in the central Piedmont after the demise of textiles and furniture. Truth is, North Carolina would be looking more like Mississippi and Alabama if it weren't for increased prosperity in the Triangle and metro Charlotte, along with tourism dollars in the mountains and on the coast. Geographic disparity in income and wealth is a bad thing, but so is uniform economic misery.
True. But some of that balance can be ascribed to the anomaly of tobacco income which has dissipated. Cities like Rocky Mount would have been in for hard times even if the Triangle and metro Charlotte had not prospered. Same story for cities in the central Piedmont after the demise of textiles and furniture. Truth is, North Carolina would be looking more like Mississippi and Alabama if it weren't for increased prosperity in the Triangle and metro Charlotte, along with tourism dollars in the mountains and on the coast. Geographic disparity in income and wealth is a bad thing, but so is uniform economic misery.
I can certainly agree with that, and the economic conditions that have gotten us where we are. NAFTA hit rural NC much harder than other states, but it left the Triangle largely unaffected because its economy is based on different drivers.
It does need to be acknowledged that the area becoming more "hot" than it is makes it more difficult for people who are trying to make a better life for themselves when housing costs continue to rise very rapidly because there's so much more competition for housing than places like Rocky Mount or Thomasville. That's not a big deal for people who already are somewhat established, but it has gotten harder and harder for younger generations to establish themselves because of the cost of living.
But it also allows for people with ingenuity who live in the areas that aren't as hot as the Triangle but are within driving distance (within an hour or two), the opportunity to offer people with disposable income a different experience than what they're used to in their own area. There are many opportunities to take advantage of that market for agri-tourism and other artsy venues that may actually be more doable in rural areas. And maybe some of that growth can spill over into some areas that haven't been doing as hot without overwhelming those areas. This happened to areas like Clayton and Pittsboro used to be thought of as really backwoodsy just a few decades ago, although they may be getting a little more overwhelmed that someone natives in those areas would want.
Jowel, thanks. I agree the gap between haves and have nots is pretty large and getting worse. I know it’s not an answer for everything but this is one the reasons I whole heartedly support Biden’s infrastructure bill. If you read it (actually read AOC’s Green Deal) you really could see that something like this could potentially help blue collar jobs and trades people immensely. It won’t fix rural va urban difference because we live in a post-manufacturing era and the prosperous little towns because of mills, plants or even the assembly lines aren’t coming back. The best we can do is to rebuilt the crumbling infrastructure, spend money on that instead of some useless, never ending foreign wars.
I should add that any small satellite town close to major cities will probably survive and prosper. Your example of Pittsboro is spot on. I think having some kind of extensive public transport will help as well. As the housing prices rise, these kinda towns become pretty attractive to people. I just think cities need stay on top of their planning and offer reliable public transport to and from these town. If you eliminate a potential hurdle of commuting and the expenses of owning a car and paying for parking in the city, living in small town outside the major city becomes a very attractive thing.
Last edited by HatchChile; 07-18-2021 at 06:33 AM..
It will make this a higher Cost of Living (COL) area. No one like that, but existing homeowners like to see the value of their property go up. Yes, it's only 3000 jobs, but they are very well paying. So, they will pay up for houses and that will increase home prices around the area. They will also pay up for other things like restaurants, so we may get some more, unique restaurants on one hand, but could increase costs of restaurant space and drive out some of the smaller local restaurants, thus increasing that portion of the COL. And it will bring more jobs to the area from the standpoint of supporting additional 3000 people and their families.
In terms of tech people that don't work for Apple, they should see a rise in their income as now their employer will need to compete with the higher average wage that Apple offers, even if their employees would have no chance of getting a job with Apple. And they may have to add amenities like Apple will have (ie: on-site cafeteria, gym, childcare, etc.) in order to compete. The ironic thing is that they will have to provide these things to all their employees even though just a handful of them may be of the caliber needed to work for Apple.
It may also help to generate other new businesses, particularly in the tech realm. As that's what happens around a large company.
From the standpoint of traffic, I'm thinking a lot of apple people will be coming from high traffic and/or toll-road areas, so they won't have a problem paying for a ride on NC-540. So, they will probably be more likely to live along that corridor than in Raleigh where they have to take crowded I-40 or I-540. As a longtime NC resident, I still find it difficult to swallow paying tolls and I know many others do too. If it weren't for NC-540 being a toll road, we'd have seen a lot more growth along that corridor already.
Politically, this will help to turn the state from a purple state to a blue state.
Generally speaking, people in the higher income area will benefit and those that are struggling or on a tight budget will fare worse and may end up moving (thus increasing the COL here further).
And with WFH now being more prevelant, people will be willing to live further from the office if they only have to go in 2-3 days a week instead of 5, so further outlying small towns like Hillsborough, Mebane, Pittsboro, etc will also probably see a bump.
And we'll also probably see other large companies place a location here with the thinking "If it's good for Apple, then it's good for us", so we'll see that affect.
Last edited by cashonly; 07-19-2021 at 05:57 AM..
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