Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary
 [Register]
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary The Triangle Area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-17-2023, 02:51 PM
 
4,261 posts, read 4,706,148 times
Reputation: 4079

Advertisements

I believe a mileage charge is inevitable.

Many consumers want long-range EVs. What they don't understand is that long-range EVs weigh more and the extra weight works against the range.

Over the long run, we can still expect the watt-hours per kilogram of the entire battery assembly (not just the cells themselves) to increase. But don't expect an order of magnitude improvement.

One good thing about battery weight is that EVs tend to have a lower center of gravity, making them less likely to flip in an accident.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-17-2023, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Carrboro, NC
360 posts, read 223,159 times
Reputation: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy View Post
I believe a mileage charge is inevitable.

Many consumers want long-range EVs. What they don't understand is that long-range EVs weigh more and the extra weight works against the range.

Over the long run, we can still expect the watt-hours per kilogram of the entire battery assembly (not just the cells themselves) to increase. But don't expect an order of magnitude improvement.

One good thing about battery weight is that EVs tend to have a lower center of gravity, making them less likely to flip in an accident.
I agree with your post overall. There will probably be some incremental improvements in battery capacity per cell, but we've been working on this technology for a long time with other applications - it isn't as new as many people think. Range has increased from the first generation EVs like the original Leaf, but that has much more to do with the total number of battery cells than it does with more efficient batteries.

I'm not sure how the government would implement a mileage charge. On older vehicles it would be pretty easy to just roll the odometer back, and I wouldn't be surprised if some automotive shops just put in a lower number for a lower tax bill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 04:09 PM
 
66 posts, read 49,248 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
All in all, the only way to make this fair and accurate going forward and ensure we have enough money to pay for roads, is have a mileage charge that is assessed at the same time as license plate renewal or inspection (which would also make a convenient time to record mileage since that is when they already do that.) This can be based partially on the GVWR of the vehicle as well.
I agree, but that still has us missing out on vehicles that are not registered in the state and just drive thru. The I-95 corridor collects a not insignificant amount of gas tax revenue from out-of-state vehicles. Maybe there should be a tax per kwh used at a charging station? (because people that charge at home will live in the state and pay the higher annual fees)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 04:11 PM
 
66 posts, read 49,248 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by codygreen View Post
I'm not sure how the government would implement a mileage charge. On older vehicles it would be pretty easy to just roll the odometer back, and I wouldn't be surprised if some automotive shops just put in a lower number for a lower tax bill.
Cars are inspected every year, and I don't think shops that do inspections would risk that lucrative income stream to risk getting caught rolling back or entering false values and potentially lose all that business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 04:17 PM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,594 posts, read 6,352,399 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashonly View Post
I agree, but that still has us missing out on vehicles that are not registered in the state and just drive thru. The I-95 corridor collects a not insignificant amount of gas tax revenue from out-of-state vehicles. Maybe there should be a tax per kwh used at a charging station? (because people that charge at home will live in the state and pay the higher annual fees)
That's already true if the vehicle doesn't stop off and purchase gas/diesel in NC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 04:19 PM
 
233 posts, read 236,386 times
Reputation: 446
The pass through thing could be solved with a federal repeal of the gas tax. Instead, the federal government can institute their own mileage based tax and distribute it to the states proportionally. If they want to make things more interesting, add another variable to the calculations (weight of vehicle).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 04:39 PM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,594 posts, read 6,352,399 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by inner_outer_440 View Post
The pass through thing could be solved with a federal repeal of the gas tax. Instead, the federal government can institute their own mileage based tax and distribute it to the states proportionally. If they want to make things more interesting, add another variable to the calculations (weight of vehicle).
States choose how much they tax gas. In some states, it is really low; in others, it is ridiculously high. I'm not sure how the Federal government would manage that. Combine that with some states have more roads to maintain per-capita, and coming up with an equitable distribution of funds would be difficult, if not impossible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 05:07 PM
 
307 posts, read 296,448 times
Reputation: 692
yeah, and then you have stories like this:

https://whyy.org/articles/pa-fuel-ta...olice-instead/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2023, 08:10 PM
 
2,006 posts, read 3,581,431 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starglow View Post
EV owners get hit with an added registration tax fee for road maintenance because they don't pay gas taxes. I suspect this fee will increase as more of the heavy EV's hit the streets and road improvement revenue falls below required funding levels. There is no free lunch.

Except you don't pay gas tax and get subsidized charging, so enjoy your "not free" lunch. What does that extra fee run y'all a year?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2023, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
9,144 posts, read 14,753,437 times
Reputation: 9070
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinner View Post
Except you don't pay gas tax and get subsidized charging, so enjoy your "not free" lunch. What does that extra fee run y'all a year?
The current EV fee is $140, which at 40.5 cents per gallon gas tax, is the equivalent of 10,380 miles for a car getting 30 mpg. I do not know the average number of mikes driven by the average person. They have talked of increasing the fee to $250 IIRC. That would be the equivalent of 18,518 for that 30 MPG vehicle.

So, if you put in 25k a year like me, you're coming out ahead, on the back of all the people only driving 6-8k a year, which again, is why a milage and possibly weight factored tax is really the only way forward.

Not sure who is getting subsidized charging. Let me know and I will go get some free power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top