Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbear
I think some of the tension about infill is overblown.
The Oaks at Fallon isn't the stereotypical teardown/infill development. There were old duplex apartments where the Oaks is being built. Most of the tension has been from folks tearing down existing single family and putting up big houses.
|
Agreed.
Georgebeckley,
Right now, our long-term plans include planting, fertilizing and growing in Five Points. We moved from Chicago specifically into Five Points and we have been renting there to get a lay of the land.
There are many realtors on this forum who could give you a better approximation of the area's past performance (and potentially future performance) from a real estate valuation standpoint. However, depending on how long you anticipate living in Five Points, the values are going to continue going nowhere but up.
That being said, my wife and I have looked at the Oaks and have decided it's not right for us. I guess it depends on what you want. Here are my thoughts:
Positives
- 1. New construction tailored to your whims
- 2. 1 mile to Five Points
- 3. Just up the hill from Fallon Park. Just so you're clear, Fallon Park is not a big open green space in the same vein as Fred Fletcher Park or Pullen Park. Instead, it's more of a long, narrow, contiguous stretch of primarily wooded trails with occasional open grassy areas that can be used to play a game of catch or have a picnic. It's a gem just the same.
- 4. Houses are varied and multiple builders involved
- 5. The Five Points area in general is close to downtown which is in the process of ongoing revitalization
Negatives
- 1. The lots are small (typically 0.15 acres)
- 2. The houses are big (nothing against big homes, but too big for the lot size in our opinion)
- 3. The development is rather dense. Specifically, the Oaks is zoned as R-10, meaning 10 dwellings allowable per acre. However, the minimum lot size is 5000 feet, which is actually 0.11 acres, so really only 9 single family homes could fit in an R-10 zone. In newer parts of Raleigh, R-10 zones are for townhouse, apartments and condos. See the attached zone map below.
- 4. There's no mixed use here (small beef since there is retail close by in Five Points and further east on Whitaker Mill)
- 5. The development is ahead of the curve for its area, so you'll have to be patient with all the property eastward. There is still a large amount of smaller, rental property to the east (e.g. Mial, Mills, Peebles, Kimbrough, et cetera). This part of Five Points is the area that is most (in my experience) criticized for the infill redevelopment. While "The Oaks" is an en masse project, houses on Mial, Mills, Peebles, Kimbrough and beyond are being turned over in the one-by-one approach. There are positives and negatives to this, but the ultimate result so far is a trend toward oversized homes on small lots. Most people with whom I have spoken expect this trend to continue since it's harder to place regulations on single home teardowns and reconstructions than entire new developments. Neither my wife nor I care for that approach, and prefer the older, appropriately sized homes on larger lots found on the more western and northern parts of Five Points.
- 6. They're expensive. I think you're paying a premium for new construction on small lots bordering an area that needs further revitalization. That being said, in the long run they're not going to lose value, but I think it's far from the best value in Five Points.
If you treat Five Points like a pie (see attached photo), property values tend to trend from most expensive to least expensive in a clockwise fashion from A->B->C->D->E. This more or less correlates with the age of the homes, zoning restrictions and size of the lots. There are obvious numerous exceptions to this, but it's a decent rule of thumb. One important exception, for instance, is that much of E is actually less dense, and more established than D, in my experience.
The area undergoing the greatest infill redevelopment is D. Again, it is a high density area, and the new homes tend to be oversized for their lots. This same development is happening north of Whitaker Mill (in the southern and eastern half of C), and to a lesser extent in E.
In Five Points, I'd focus on the areas of C (between Glenwood and Whitaker Mill) that are further north than the Oaks as well as areas closer to Glenwood (west). If you want a lot of space, you could even exit Five Points all together and look north of Anderson Rd., which more or less parallels Whitaker Mill north of the Five Points Neighborhoods. There is a small section of R-2 zoned property there.
If you don't mind buying an existing property and renovating it to your liking, you'll find much better value. Depending on where you buy, you might qualify for historic district tax credits on renovation. There are numerous single story (or 1 1/2 story) bungalows in C that currently go for the low to mid $400s. If you're willing to spend $800+ (for the Oaks), you could easily get an older bungalow further off of Whitaker Mill and on a larger lot (e.g. 0.25 and up), gut the home, add a second story, and landscape to your heart's content. You'd essentially have a house like those in the Oaks but on twice the acreage.
If you're the kind of folks that just want to buy the finished package, then perhaps the Oaks is right for you, but it's quite a premium for that privilege.
By the way, if you're really into planning, zoning, and neighborhood action, the next Five Points Citizens Advisory Council (CAC) meeting takes place July 9, 7:30-9:30 PM at 820 Clay Street - Garris Building in Fred Fletcher Park which is further south on Glenwood. The top item on the agenda (as far as I know) is the "Fairview," which is the proposed 4 story development on Fairview Street just northwest of the post office. However, you're bound to bump into many knowledgeable locals who can best answer your questions and concerns.
Five Points Pie Chart
Five Points Zoning Pie Chart
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
