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Flying piggy, could you provide more details regarding what specifically about the administration and environment is detrimental. As a parent of three kids in the CH-C school system I'm keenly interested in hearing a student's point of view. TIA.
It's hard to put into words, but I'll do my best. First of all, the students at the schools (high schools, at least) get very competitive and work very hard (I did 5+ hours of homework nightly, had straight A's and a 4.7 GPA, and wasn't even in the top 10% of my class) and the school still shows them little sympathy and refuses to treat them like responsible adults. There are a ridiculous number of hoops to jump through with getting absences excused, etc. and it seems like the school shows very little respect for the students that honestly make the school the highly-ranked place it is.
A few examples:
If you leave early for a doctor's appointment, here's what you have to do: Your parent drives in to pick you up (even if you are 18 and can drive yourself), goes into an office, gives your (the student's) name to the woman in the office, the incompetent staff tries to figure out where you are despite the thousands of forms you've filled out for them with your schedule written on it, a staff member finally strolls into your classroom to pick you up, does't smile or make any eye contact, walks you back over to the office, has your parent sign his/her name in a little book, and then you leave. 50% of the time the absence is still "unexcused". If you have an unexcused absence, you get your parent to call into the school and also write you a note explaining your absence. You (the student) have to go into that same office (if you're lucky enough to get there when the office is open, as the administrators seem to think it's okay to show up whenever they want), wait in line (and usually the bell rings before you get to the front of the line, and you wouldn't want to be late for class or you have to go through this whole thing all over again), and once you get to the front of the line, the administrator gives you a little purple slip. You take this purple slip to your teacher whose class you have missed, have the teacher sign in the appropriate space, and bring the form back to the office and put it in the folder marked with the letter of your last name. And again, sometimes one goes through with this process and still sees that the absence is marked as "unexcused".
Another, more personal example is the time when I was stung by a bee on my foot while walking to school. I had never been stung before and wasn't sure whether I was allergic, so I hobble over to my first period class crying and tell the teacher that I have to go to the nurse because I was stung by a bee on my way to school. The teacher (who is more sympathetic than the nurse, as I alluded to before) says okay, and I hobble across the school to the nurse's office. In tears, I tell the secretary that I have been stung and need to see the nurse. Coldly, she says "you need a pass", "go back and get a pass," making me go BACK to my first period teacher, get him to write me a pass, go back to the nurse's office, sit down and wait 10 minutes for her to finish typing an email, and then give me a bandaid and some ice, essentially. I've had other experiences with the nurse in which I simply need some Ibuprofen or something small like that, and she says she can only give it to me if a parent comes in and signs a release for the meds. Obviously, if a parent had the time to come in and do something like that, I wouldn't need the nurse!
A final example is when I became a National Merit Scholarship Semi-Finalist as a result of a high PSAT score. This award is given to only a few (10-20) students each year, generally very high-achievers, so you'd think the school would treat us well, for once, knowing that we're good kids and not troublemakers who need to be treated harshly. Of course not. We were all summoned in for a meeting where we'd receive our materials to let us advance in the scholarship competition, and a secretary simply read blankly and coldly from a script without offering any congratulations or smiles.
I know these things seem really petty and it probably appears that I'm just filled with teen angst, but it's hard to convey how little respect the school (administrators, not teachers) have for the students who they really owe a lot to. The worst part is that at the end of it all, the administration uses our high AP and SAT scores to brag about the quality of the school.
(Another note: I did have a good experience overall and I'm sure that I'm well-prepared for college with all the hard work that I did. I know what I've written here is negative, but my experience with the administration is NOT the same experience I had in classes and with schoolmates, so don't let that dissuade you from sending your kids into the school system).
A few examples:
If you leave early for a doctor's appointment, here's what you have to do: Your parent drives in to pick you up (even if you are 18 and can drive yourself), goes into an office, gives your (the student's) name to the woman in the office, the incompetent staff tries to figure out where you are despite the thousands of forms you've filled out for them with your schedule written on it, a staff member finally strolls into your classroom to pick you up, does't smile or make any eye contact, walks you back over to the office, has your parent sign his/her name in a little book, and then you leave. 50% of the time the absence is still "unexcused".
I had a child at East Chapel Hill High, and never had this experience once despite picking her up numerous times over the years for various appointments. She was always able to excuse herself from class to meet me in the office at the appointed time (I sent a note for her to give the teacher), I signed the notebook in the office, and we left. That's all it ever took.
"it's hard to convey how little respect the school (administrators, not teachers) have for the students who they really owe a lot to."
I don't know, there may be more to it than this, but in reading this post, it makes me feel just fine about the CH-C schools. First, the quote above. IMO, the school really owes you nothing. You are still a teenager. You are a teen who has been given the opportunity to go to school (which 90% of the children of the world does not have). You have been given the opportunity to attend one of the best schools in the nation. You are a very privileged person. You may understand this in theory, but I don't think you understand it in reality, if you feel like you are owed something at your age, with all you have been given. You owe. You owe your parents, and your teachers a lot of thanks and respect for what you have been given. You owe the world something in return for the opportunities you have.
The late slip thing, well, that's all just part of going to a big public school. They can't make exceptions for you b/c then they would need to make them for everyone, and there are plenty of kids who would take advantage by skipping school, etc. That's just a public school hoop to jump through. SMall price to pay.
And lastly, I don't know, but crying over a bee sting in HS? This part you totally lost me. I've been stung many times and it hurts, but crying??? I don't really even understand what you expected from the nurse other than ice. I'm frankly surprised you would go to the nurse with a bee sting.
OK, so people are probably (given recent threads) now going to get upset that I'm "attacking" or being "belligerent" but honestly I think these boards are for opinions, and sometimes opinions aren't the ones you want to hear.
Having lived in the developing world, seen MANY children die of preventable and treatable illnesses, seen so many sick and so many who would give almost anything for a chance to attend a really crappy school in a nearby town, but who will never have that chance, I have trouble with this post. I see nothing here that makes me think any less of CH-C schools, I only see a child who is very privileged but doesn't quite realize it yet.
In closing, just so you know, I was just like you in HS. I felt like people owed me a lot. I felt like people were unappreciative. I realize now that I was the one with my glasses on upside down. So don't think I'm being overly harsh. You can't know the world at 17 or 18, but my guess is that if you decide to spend some time looking at how the rest of the U.S., the rest of the world lives, you might change your criticism to thanks.
The little issues mentioned in FlyingPiggy's post simply show me that the policies at CH/C are the same as at practically every public school in the country. The confusion about excused absences sounds annoying, but I suspect that there are ways around that which FlyingPiggy did not investigate.
By the by, FlyingPiggy, the nurse was not saying that a parent has to come in and sign off EVERY time you need to take an ibuprophen. Rather, the parents need to sign one consent form at the beginning of the school year & that consent form will allow the student to take certain meds whenever needed throughout the school year. At my school system, that consent form was sent home with the students during the first week of school. From there, the parents could either mail back the signed form or the student could bring it to school & drop it off by the admin office or ask a teacher to send it through inter-office mail.
I am a recent (as of a few days ago!) graduate of a Chapel Hill-Carrboro City school, so I have a lot to say about this:
1) The system does NOT pay their teachers especially well at all. During my four years in high school, I had several teachers leave the district for better-paying jobs at other (what I would assume to be poorer) schools. Teachers stay in the district because they enjoy teaching high-achieving kids.
2) The schools get a high reputation because of the caliber of students they get. Kids compete, in the truest sense of the word, to get into top colleges. When they do so, it is DESPITE their high school, not a result of it. I don't mean to bash the faculty of the schools -- many of my teachers have been wonderful, caring, intelligent people -- but the administration and atmosphere of the schools is a huge detriment. The school really owes it to their high-achieving students for keeping the school's reputation as it is. I'm not saying this bitterly or arrogantly; I'm saying it because it is the truth.
3) The schools ARE well-funded compared to other districts' schools. Unfortunately, the money seems to go into buying tech gadgets rather than into the teachers' pockets. The facilities are unquestionably nicer than at other schools. This is again, though, a result of the academically-oriented parents (faculty at UNC and Duke, for example) who send their kids to the school system.
A lot of this echoes what others have said. It's all, unsurprisingly, an effect of being a college town with academic families needing a place to send their kids.
I'm sorry if I came off as unappreciative or ranty -- I had a feeling I would, but when asked to explain the negative aspects of a school it seems inevitable that I would come off as negative.
I, too, have visited the developing world (India, Nicaragua, and Thailand) several times to teach English. I also spent one month tutoring math in an underperforming middle school near Las Vegas. Please don't stereotype me as an ungrateful teenager based on one post that I made. I understand that I owe a great deal to my parents and my teachers, but I don't think that explaining the incompetency of my school administration is immature -- I was answering someone's question. When I said that the school owed a lot to its students, I meant that the students are the ones that generate the school's high rankings, so one would think that the administration would try to be a little kinder to them.
As for the bee sting, I explained that I had never been stung before, and my younger brother is allergic to bee stings so I was worried that I might be too. I was simply pointing out my emotional state so that the coldness of the response I got could be understood, not so that others could comment on whether my crying was justified...
FrogAndToad, excuse me for saying this, but I don't think you have the basis for condescendingly saying that you were "just like me" in high school. You know nothing about me other than my opinions on my school's administration. I am a very appreciative person in general and do NOT feel that people "owe me a lot" -- my family and teachers would attest to this. The fact that I spend time on this forum and type out lengthy, descriptive answers for others should be a sign of this as well.
I should have known better than to answer a question which would make me seem like an angry, negative teen. If you knew me personally I think you would discover that I am a quiet (if opinionated), thoughtful, sweet girl. If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to message me privately. And again, I had many wonderful experiences with teachers and other adults at the school, so please do not take what I say to be a negative review of the school as a whole.
And CHTransplant, I'm glad your child had a better experience than I did. I was just offering my personal opinion, of course.
Last edited by flyingpiggy; 06-05-2009 at 04:14 PM..
I was only saying "just like you" to try to say that I was not saying you were a bad person or anything like that. Of course I don't know, and you don't know me or my background either. Still, the things that were bothering you about school do point to you being young, and not having certain experiences which would make those things so inconsequential that you wouldn't even think to mention them/they wouldn't bother you in the least. So I apologize if you felt it was condescending. I think it's just a matter of age, and not anything negative. I believe everything you say about being appreciative and kind, etc. I am not trying to cast you in a negative light. You did say specifically that the teachers and school "owe you" which is why I responded to that.
But still, I do think that once you're 30 or 40 you'll look back (with a certain nostalgia) at your 17 year old, love the way s/he thinks, and also laugh at the things you thought were important or "bad" when you were that age, including the complaints you listed. It's a perspective that comes with experience. It's not an attack on who you are as a person, on your kindness, or on who you will become. You are obviously a successful student, and I'm sure you're a good person.
BTW, as you seem to be interested in int'l work or at least learning from int'l experience, Peace Corps has been a life-changing experience for everyone I know who did it. 2+ years in the developing world, speaking the local language, etc. is an amazing experience and although there to help others, I think the perspective gained benefits the people doing it as much as any help given. It's a very different experience than any other program, as it's the only one where you actually live with there for an extended time without other Americans to rely on, speaking the local language, etc. Just something I thought you might be interested in.
Well, for what it's worth, my parents feel the same way I do about the administration and my mom and I share some laughs about it together whenever she spends half an hour trying to pick me up for an appointment or anything. But I appreciate your kind words and am sure that I will change as I get older... though I'm pretty sure my thoughts on this topic will remain pretty much the same, sorry
I had been interested in the Peace Corps for a long time, actually, but after hearing from people who have done both, I think I am planning to do Teach for America instead. Thank you though!
I had been interested in the Peace Corps for a long time, actually, but after hearing from people who have done both, I think I am planning to do Teach for America instead. Thank you though!
My husband did Teach for America. He thought it was great. He and I also did Peace Corps, also great--in a different way.
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