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I just got back from a meeting with a friend's sister after she blew literally the price of a new car on a "real estate expo". I don't want to do anything to provoke hostility from anyone, I'm more just venting / looking for solutions.
The thing is I've worked in other fields besides real estate, so I get the idea of "motivational speakers" and "trade shows". Heck I have owned rental properties and know that they can provide good cash flow in some situations, but the fact is that I no longer own rentals nor even directly engage as a real estate agent because I've learned there are better ways to make a living.
From what I gather the particular firm that roped in my friend's sister is associated with some of the "TV Star" type flippers. I guess they think that gives them credibility. The bad thing is that when they get a women that barely finished high school more than four decades ago to part with about as money that she currently earns in two years there is something sinister going on.
Look, I get it, everybody has fears and dreams. Heck I've read the "self help" books about overcoming things that hold you back / being decisive / working with somebody who has figured out things that are hard for you to do on your own. What makes me sick is that I kind of can guess that the twisted folks behind this "educational firm" have hired enough lawyers to know that there is NO WAY that I can do anything to help my friend's sister get back money that she really cannot afford to waste on what is really a couple days of MORE SALES PITCHES.
Apparently the structure of this thing was based on a free afternoon of getting pumped up on quickly flipping properties. Then for a not totally crazy fee (but still about a month of pension / social security check for this woman... ) she went to a "three day mini class" that did include a mix of not completely false ideas about how to get started invested in real estate along with medium soft sell about the BIG expo. Like I said, I get the appeal of motivational speakers, I have even heard a few. Sadly darned near all of them veer off from useful ideas into making stuff up / giving borderline supernatural reason for scientifically provable things -- walking on hot coals is a lot more about understanding how steam protects your feet if you start on wet grass and walk fast enough than it is about "believing the power within your mind"!
Same kind of thing with getting really low priced real estate -- there are some folks out there that do want / need to sell and are willing to give up some of the potential profits to move on with their life. The problem is that are not ENOUGH of those situation to CONSISTENTLY make enough to cover your expenses! Whether you find the properties by driving around, relying on "mailmen and meter readers", or some magic "software" the numbers for TIME & COSTS IN vs DOLLARS OUT won't work for any length of time no matter how much the guru's "system's" is "as good having a McDonalds"...
I am kind of mad that my friend called me. I feel there is no way for his sister to get her money back. I further feel that despite my efforts to "explain this so a fourth grader could see how it won't work" the subtle brainwashing that she's been subjected to already put me in the category of "dream killer". Even if I were to show her how she could set LLCs for a tenth of the cost of the "magic partner" she'd think I was trying to prevent her success
How do you helps friend who've gotten sucked into terribly misguided efforts around "investing"???
Unless you're able to talk some sense into them early on, it's doubtful that you can. Like with Craigslist scams, some people are just more prone to be taken advantage of--and the scammers count on that.
This is how some people who seem so nice and smart get scammed into sending all their life savings and their deceased spouse's savings to people they meet online with phony pix and they believe they are in love with this guy or girl. And they do it again. And again. And again.
I just got back from a meeting with a friend's sister after she blew literally the price of a new car on a "real estate expo".
...
I am kind of mad that my friend called me. I feel there is no way for his sister to get her money back. I further feel that despite my efforts to "explain this so a fourth grader could see how it won't work" the subtle brainwashing that she's been subjected to already put me in the category of "dream killer". Even if I were to show her how she could set LLCs for a tenth of the cost of the "magic partner" she'd think I was trying to prevent her success
That's exactly what will happen, and there's nothing you can do. So that's what you tell your friend.
You can't fix stupid, but you can let them fail and realize what happened on their own. Hopefully she'll learn from this.
I have family members that continually fall for these stupid "investments," and schemes. They go bankrupt and move on to the next brain dead idea. That quick buck is always just around the corner.
No matter how I try phrasing my concerns, be it through warnings, advice, whatever....Some people are just suckers. That's the way of the world. You can't squash their dreams now.
You'd think that after repeated failure from these motivational speakers, seminars, franchises, slick sales pitches etc. that they would learn a lesson. It's tough to un-brainwash someone. I've learned to just smile and wish them the best in their endeavors.
Too bad you found out after the fact, Chet! Not much you could do at that point (she'll figure out she's been conned pretty soon, if she hasn't already).
IDK if it will help for future situations, but when a young and naive relative was trying to convince us that a restaurant start-up was a good place to "invest" her $25K life savings, I told her "This deal isn't for someone who can afford to invest $25K , it's for someone who can afford to lose $25K. There is a big difference."
Most if not all of the "Guru's" are liars. Promise promise promise and deliver next to nothing.
I have a lot of experience flipping and went to a couple seminars with my business partner just to see if we could come away with something new. First of all, they don't even give you what they promised for the free seminar. We then went to a 3 day AM Seminar (Think Texas) and split the cost. $1,500 and again what they promised in the 1st seminar was not delivered.
They give you a big spiel about how to come up with more money for renovations, so they tell you to call your credit cards in good standing and request an increase in your credit limit. This works if you have good credit, one of mine (I only did it just to see) was increased to $100k. Essentially what they are really doing is making sure that as many people as possible can afford the boot camp fee of $40,000
We had no intention of going to their boot camp but still got a couple employees and asked about what they had promised and just got blank stares.
I had a friend of mine and his Wife, instead of coming to me an asking if this was a smart idea, both spend $25,000 on another Guru's seminar. They ended up filing BK.
Main-chancers and fly-by-nighters are mostly self-evident from a young age. They usually are not the kids with paper routes and pushing lawnmowers (or whatever kids do these days); they are rolling dice or playing Three Card Monte in the alley with the other juvenile delinquents. Stupid stuff that snookers most people once, then they wise up. Sucker never do.
In brief, it was evident to me by age 16 the way ahead in life was a solid career. Slow and steady. I am *too* slow and steady, so will never be ultra-rich. I get that. However, decades later, I have a spectacular job paying 97th percentile income. To be clear, that did take a while and other got there faster, and will go higher, but a great many others are in the dust as-well. I have friends in jail, dead, or working truly dead-end jobs that I doubt cover more than the rent in mediocre housing...the rest their wife covers at an equally mediocre job.
Ambition, and thoughtfulness, will get you ahead in life. A little luck helps. Ability to get up after repeated career beat downs is mandatory. I have seen *zero* get rich schemes in, say, IT other than that luck of inventing something cool (pretty rare) or hitching to a rising star (a good, but risky, idea) or having an innate and unique talent...must be both...also rare. I envy those types, but that is not me, I have none of that, just the ability to be in the right place at the right time w/current skills.
Not sure why that is difficult for main-chancers to understand. "Flipping houses", "day trading," gold speculation, all that stupid ___t they advertise on the radio is a fast way to part with $5K to start, then 8x more in "fees," "courses", other idiocy designed only to part you from your money! How about this: want a real estate deal? Study megatrends in an area, look at various economic indicators, figure out if it is up and coming. If up and coming, make some real estate strikes..., which requires the ability to save and plan. Then, start an acorn of a financial portfolio setup by your company (hopefully), taking advantage of tax breaks and free money (401K). Then, start investing in a small portfolio on your own or with one of the big brokerage houses that does not mind small investors.
You will see results on A), B), C) in a decade. Two decades, maybe. After three, you should have a good chunk of return. By that time, you should have also accumulated degrees and certifications in subjects relevant to up and coming technologies and other industries, and should be middle to upper management as-well (or a higher-level individual contributor), compounding your savings as you dump more and more into the portfolio(s).
That does NOT include marrying floozies, having a ton of life-sucking children, bad divorces, other dumb ___t that invariably follows losers as well.
Please hand out the above to every 19 year old you meet who appears to have brains and prospects. I have that sort of "fireside chat" with my friend's kids...2x...one got it, the other did not. One will have *something* at 40, the other will be broke and divorced with at least one child dragging her down. Do the math.
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The bad thing is that when they get a women that barely finished high school more than four decades ago to part with about as money that she currently earns in two years there is something sinister going on.
) she went to a "three day mini class" that did include a mix of not completely false ideas about how to get started invested in real estate along with medium soft sell about the BIG expo. Like I said, I get the appeal of motivational speakers, I have even heard a few. Sadly darned near all of them veer off from useful ideas into making stuff up / giving borderline supernatural reason for scientifically provable things -- walking on hot coals is a lot more about understanding how steam protects your feet if you start on wet grass and walk fast enough than it is about "believing the power within your mind"!
