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So you do not accept properties that may be difficult to sell?
Ah, but the marketing is what brings in the potential matching buyer.
You are independent, but everyone in the community charges the same commission. In other businesses, this would be considered price fixing.
That's why you have some aqua Caddies on the lot. Do you turn down listings if you do not think you have a buyer for that particular property?
The price was set with input from an experienced real estate agent. We made it clear that we would consider any realistic offer. We did not get any offers. Not even a low ball.
We are still in the house. I am planning to update the kitchen. We have sold the property we planned to build on. I sold it myself, paying a buyer's agent 3%, when the market started to fall. We got a little over our purchase price. The only reason I sold it was because the handwriting was on the wall at that point for its potential value to drop considerably.
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Right now, buyers do not have to pay any commissions. Why should they want to?
You may not be able to control how they act --- and I am sure there are people you have showed 40 houses to who never bought one --- but you sure do control what houses they get to see.
There is usually only one reason a house won't sell. The price is too high. I don't take over priced listings I can't sell.
It is not marketing that brings the buyer, it is the house or the features of the house and a good price. Normally I send the listings by email and they choose what they want to see. With the MLS being available to anyone, I cannot control what they see, and there is no reason to. Why would I want to keep them from seeing a house they want to see?
No, everyone does not charge the same commission. 6 percent split 3 and 3 is common but not always.
No, I do not turn down a listing because I don't have a buyer for it. Normally another agent brings a buyer if I list it. I turn down a listing if the sellers price is unrealistic.
I'm an experienced investor myself and don't mind telling you I think it was a huge mistake investing in a house with an indoor pool. As far as investing goes, quirks and liabilities can often be the same thing. An indoor pool to most people is just a huge expense and a pain in the butt to maintain.
1. Your home was over-priced. Few, if any, qualified people saw value equal to or near your price. If it had been priced properly, it would have been shown and sold. That is factually how markets work.
See my other two posts on this one. You'd have to see the house.
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2. Buyers have the right to hire and pay an agent directly. Already. No systemic revamp is needed, other than fresh attitude and beliefs on the part of consumers.
They may have the right to pay, but the system is set up so they do not have to.
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3. Buyers already have the right to contact listing agents directly. No revamp needed to accomplish that.
But the first listing agent they talk to tends to become their buyer's agent, unless they only look at homes in that agent's inventory. How many buyers serially call different listing agents?
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4. Consumers have access to a great deal of MLS-related information already. And it is not a public utility, but a privately-owned facility.
Yes, I understand that.
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5. What do car lots, electronics stores, etc, do when they want to move specific inventory? They offer spiffs and increased commissions to salespeople on sales of that inventory. It is ethical and legal, although it prompts the salesperson to steer customers towards specific inventory, rather than product that may actually serve the customer better.
Buyers agents serve clients, not customers, and ethically must disclose the spiffs and increased commissions. Not so the car sales person.
And you think real estate agents do not steer clients toward specific inventory?
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6. Who would make up the list of services? I do a lot of stuff that no one could ever imagine ahead of time, but surely don't mind stepping in to do, because it should help my client under the arrangement in place.
Not saying real estate agents do not work hard. A lot of evening and weekend work and time away from families. But there are inequities in the system for sellers.
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7. I control no buyer. Never have. It is not my role.
See my posts above. You are the one that brings the buyer to the seller. And unless the buyer is experienced, you will be showing the houses you choose to steer the buyer to.
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Yes, clients who pay more sometimes subsidize those who pay less. Particularly true in the case of higher end home buyers and sellers who pay more than lower end buyers and sellers.
Leveling that off would typically mean raising costs for people in the sub-$150,000 range, because 5% of $80,000--$100,000 doesn't produce enough revenue. Agents who average low dollar sales work themselves to exhaustion doing enough business to survive. So they need higher end sales to average out the revenue over a year's time.
But this is the crux of the discussion. The compensation should be based on the amount of work, not on a one size fits all commission.
That could mean setting a minimum fee for those lower end properties that would perhaps be larger than the 5% for some of them.
I have a problem with being charged the same fee for a sale to the first person who looks at a house as for a sale that takes many showings and many weeks to find a buyer.
It seems to me that the agents would also benefit from taking away the stress of a commission based system. Have the buyers and sellers pay for the services they actually use.
I meant the statement about fixer uppers as rhetorical. I still think that an agent is going to want to show the easier property to sell over the more difficult one.
You don't understand buyer behavior. The easiest property to sell is the one the buyer wants. Most buyers won't want your house because of the indoor pool. They would eliminate it, not agents.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
But you are asking all the sellers with easy to sell homes to subsidize your gamble.
Not at all. They have a choice. Most choose commissions.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
See my post above. I think it's the quirks, not the price.
Anything that deviates from what the average buyer wants is a "defect" from a resale perspective. Defects cause price drops and long sales times. Quirks bring the price of the house down.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Yeah, buyers love their agents because they do not have to pay them.
They pay us in the form on an increased purchase price. They are just financing our fee.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
And I predict more sellers will be doing it.
I predict the opposite.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
So how do you condone dual agency? How can you possibly "negotiate harder" for both the seller and the buyer at the same time? Since the agent's commission is higher with a higher sales price, there is inevitably a bias for the seller.
Where do I say that I condone dual agency? Violates my company policy. I'm the owner so I get to decide policy.
I guess whether or not their is a bias depends on what you believe about people. I guess if you think an agent that encourages their buyer to pay $10,000 more so they can get a whopping $150 bucks extra is actually incentivized by that, I don't know what to say. I suggest if you are meeting agents that are willing to screw over a client for $150 you need to spend more time interviewing agents.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
And you do determine what houses people see. Some buyers may be more savvy and do more internet shopping, but you are the one who opens the lock box and lets them into the house.
This is a sad statement. So you think that if a buyer emails their agent a listing they found on Zillow, the agent is going to refuse to open the lockbox? Really? Egads...
Here is what would really happen. If the agent says I'm not going to show it to you, the buyer will find another agent. I mean there are only a bazillion of us. We control diddly squat. If agents aren't providing consumers with good service, then find another one of us. It really is that simple. If someone picks an idiotic agent from the get go, realizes they are an idiot, and then stays with them, they only have themselves to blame.
And is isn't just SOME buyers. It's MOST buyers. 90% of buyers in fact are online shopping. Only 10% aren't. Are you a boomer?
"Quirks" equal deficiencies. "Price fixes all deficiencies." If the property is marketed well, it is noticed, and then the value has to be right.
Several of you have made the point about the price. I understand where you are coming from.
As I said, we were willing to be very flexible on the price and our agent was aware of that.
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Many agents will not work in dual agency. Sending a buyer to the listing agent, as has been recommended by some is encouraging dual agency.
Dual agency is common here.
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About the time a buyers agent refuses to show homes the client wants to see, or tries to steer the client to homes they don't want to see, it gets pretty easy to see who is in control, and it isn't the agent.
This is so solidly fundamental to the agency relationship and responsibility, and bears repeating.
Say the buyer shows you two addresses in a subdivision. The houses are virtually identical, maybe by the same builder. One is your listing, the other is listed through another brokerage. Which are you going to show first?
There is usually only one reason a house won't sell. The price is too high. I don't take over priced listings I can't sell.
Then you do not have to worry about too many aqua Caddies, do you?
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It is not marketing that brings the buyer, it is the house or the features of the house and a good price. Normally I send the listings by email and they choose what they want to see. With the MLS being available to anyone, I cannot control what they see, and there is no reason to. Why would I want to keep them from seeing a house they want to see?
But if the house has unusual features, just an MLS listing might not be enough to get the house noticed by the right pool of buyers.
Please note, guys, that I am one of the people that would be paying you more for more service.
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No, everyone does not charge the same commission. 6 percent split 3 and 3 is common but not always.
In my community at the time I tried to sell, everyone charged the same commission.
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No, I do not turn down a listing because I don't have a buyer for it. Normally another agent brings a buyer if I list it. I turn down a listing if the sellers price is unrealistic.
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I'm an experienced investor myself and don't mind telling you I think it was a huge mistake investing in a house with an indoor pool. As far as investing goes, quirks and liabilities can often be the same thing. An indoor pool to most people is just a huge expense and a pain in the butt to maintain.
We built the house. Custom, with an architect. DH was several times All American swimmer in college. Shall we just say the familial negotiations about the pool during the design of the house were interesting and sometimes, uh, heated?
Since it is indoors, the upkeep is actually simplified.
We did not build it as an investment. We built it to live in and rear two kids.
Then you do not have to worry about too many aqua Caddies, do you?
But if the house has unusual features, just an MLS listing might not be enough to get the house noticed by the right pool of buyers.
Please note, guys, that I am one of the people that would be paying you more for more service.
In my community at the time I tried to sell, everyone charged the same commission.
We built the house. Custom, with an architect. DH was several times All American swimmer in college. Shall we just say the familial negotiations about the pool during the design of the house were interesting and sometimes, uh, heated?
Since it is indoors, the upkeep is actually simplified.
We did not build it as an investment. We built it to live in and rear two kids.
No need to apologize for your home, Suzy_q--- only a realtor would blame the fact that they or one of their comrades couldn't sell your house ON YOU... The rest of us know the truth. It sounds like an awesome house and hopefully you will be able to find a new zest for it and be just fine!
You don't understand buyer behavior. The easiest property to sell is the one the buyer wants. Most buyers won't want your house because of the indoor pool. They would eliminate it, not agents.
That's why I'm saying sellers like me need to pay more, because we will use more of your resources. You will have to work harder to find me a buyer who is a dedicated swimmer who would love to have the pool.
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Not at all. They have a choice. Most choose commissions.
This must vary a lot with geography. The agents I have dealt with have not been interested in doing anything except their standard commission.
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Anything that deviates from what the average buyer wants is a "defect" from a resale perspective. Defects cause price drops and long sales times. Quirks bring the price of the house down.
And some quirks require either finding a special buyer or a fire sale price. I'm sure if we offered the house for $5 000 someone would have bought it. The 9 acres it is on are (even today) worth a lot more than that --- the buyer could do a tear down and build a McMansion.
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Where do I say that I condone dual agency? Violates my company policy. I'm the owner so I get to decide policy.
Sorry, that was meant as a generic "you", not you specifically.
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I guess whether or not their is a bias depends on what you believe about people. I guess if you think an agent that encourages their buyer to pay $10,000 more so they can get a whopping $150 bucks extra is actually incentivized by that, I don't know what to say. I suggest if you are meeting agents that are willing to screw over a client for $150 you need to spend more time interviewing agents.
This is in the context of dual agency, which you say you have a policy against. So actually we must agree that trying to get the highest price for the seller and the lowest price for the buyer creates a conflict?
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This is a sad statement. So you think that if a buyer emails their agent a listing they found on Zillow, the agent is going to refuse to open the lockbox? Really? Egads...
No. I am saying that if you have a similar home in your own inventory, one that fits what the buyer is looking for, you are likely to tell the buyer about it and show it first. The buyer will be happy to see it. He just wants a house with certain features.
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Here is what would really happen. If the agent says I'm not going to show it to you, the buyer will find another agent. I mean there are only a bazillion of us. We control diddly squat. If agents aren't providing consumers with good service, then find another one of us. It really is that simple. If someone picks an idiotic agent from the get go, realizes they are an idiot, and then stays with them, they only have themselves to blame.
And is isn't just SOME buyers. It's MOST buyers. 90% of buyers in fact are online shopping. Only 10% aren't. Are you a boomer?
Busted!
It's not about refusing to show a particular house. It's about convincing the buyer you have a house just as good or better that he would rather see. So in that sense, you do control which seller's house gets shown. From the buyer's point of view, your house may be the better choice for him. But one seller's gain is another's loss.
I have been a buyer, too. I've had agents try to steer me to particular subdivisions and houses priced higher than I wanted, because the agent wanted me to get the most house he thought I could afford, not what I wanted to pay. Since DH and I wanted a lot less house than we could afford, that did not work really well for us.
[quote=js1mom;21680812]
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
No need to apologize for your home, Suzy_q--- only a realtor would blame the fact that they or one of their comrades couldn't sell your house ON YOU... The rest of us know the truth. It sounds like an awesome house and hopefully you will be able to find a new zest for it and be just fine!
Well, we now have an energetic grand daughter. She's not big enough to learn to swim yet, but when she is, DH is ready!
Now the MSFancyPants FrozenAngel Tribute Band has taken the stage.
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Originally Posted by Nocontengencies
I must be really bored an desperate for something to do. This conversation is just dumb.
Yes, but it is on public display and had to be answered with some factual information from knowledgeable members. I think that has been accomplished repeatedly at this point, adequate to help other people see good information.
It is unfortunate when it is difficult to discern between trolling, aggressive victimhood, and lack of knowledge. I have no idea which is most prevalent here, but it is good to see several skilled agents working to provide good information.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 11-12-2011 at 06:53 AM..
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