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Update ... our agent just contacted us and told us the buyer's Realtor really tried hard to sell us the house but the sellers refused to negotiate despite their knowledge that the house was badly in need of major work ... their house is hurting the pricing of the rest of the houses on that street so the agent is dropping their listing. Sad but true ... but the market has spoken.
You're right that many sellers are very unrealistic about the price their home can bring on the open market, but don't think too badly of them. In the case of your aborted deal, it sounds as though you have a couple who have owned that house for a very long time. There's not only a tremendous amount of sentiment bound up in a house like that, but they may also have the mindset that they "need" to get a certain amount of money for their financial security (retirement, medical bills, etc.). Everyone thinks their house is worth more than it is because they see it through perceptions colored by sentiment (and some greed).
They fail to recognize that what they "need" to get is irrelevant to a buyer (except that if a buyer senses desperation they are likely to offer even less since they know the seller needs to get out).
I don't know anything about your market, but sellers are sellers and buyers are buyers and everyone is always looking out for their own best interest. Sellers in many areas of the country have had a number of years where they have been in the driver's seat and it's hard for them to re-adjust and recognize that the tide has turned and not only can they not get the price they would have gotten last year or the year before but they may get significantly less. It's difficult and sad because they see their biggest asset shrinking before their eyes.
So don't be too hard on them. Just recognize that for some people they can't wrap either their mind or their balance sheet around the current market reality. It's really very sad because the consequences can be catastrophic if they can't manage to hold on to the home until the market turns around.
Thanks. RE agents say everyone is selling their second homes, camps and land like crazy in the Adirondacks to raise cash. Except for lake front property its just like the rest of the country, only less buyers and people willing to wait. Four out of five sellers (whom we didn't offer to) were desperate and all homes were empty except for one who needed to move after being abandoned by her husband ... a sad state of affiars!
We drove by ex-Govenor Pataki's farm in the "historic" village of Essex several times and rejected a home about 2 miles from there in Willsboro because the main girder and supporting beams were ready to fall (but the asking price was astronomical). We looked from Tupper Lake, Saranac Lake in the West to Paul Smiths to Malone to Champlain and Plattsburgh and Westport and all points in between. The smaller northern villages along the Canadian border have homes that are are REALLY cheap ($65,000-100,000) and this home was in that zone ... my question is why hold onto a home that will be derilict and collapse in another winter? Better yet, why even list it if its not really for sale? We are seeing "Reduced for quick sale" everywhere and FSBO signs are like Stop signs in all the small towns ... Lake Placid is too expenive for all but the rich to buy in but everyone else is getting desperate -yet they appear to be having a sellers price revolt and the worst year is supposed to be next year.
Opinions?
You must have driven by my dad's house, he lives right down the road from Pataki.
Most of the homes in the area have been owned for so many years and they bought them for nothing. My dad has been in his home for 37 years and paid $1500 for it. People don't move too often in that area. Again, most people owe nothing and can afford to sit on them until they get what they want. There are some astronomical prices being paid for almost nothing up there.
Sounds to me like you wasted their time.
You cannot apply the general theme of "buyer's market" to all
real estate. Every situation and property is different.
If you want a house, make a serious offer.
She isn't. She specifically said that they took into account that the house needed about $50,000 in updates, and compared it to other properties in that particular village, which sounds like a depressed area. The seller also countered back $25,000 less than asking, so obviously the $225,000 asking price is a made up number.
It sounds like the family (parents mainly) that own this home no longer live there, and are probably in a nursing home or living with one of the kids. They may be hoping to get the $200,000 out for an inheritance, or the parent (s) are stubborn thinking the house is the crown jewel of upstate NY.
You did the right thing poshaccent, and they were childish not to respond. Many sellers need to get real, or just take their homes off the market.
The simple solution is: if you're a motivated buyer, don't negotiate with unmotivated sellers. They want to sell their home at a certain price. You want to pay less. All the logical reasoning and rational arguments in the world aren't going to change their mind. It's their house, they don't have to sell and a buyer telling them their home is overpriced is only going to make them less likely to sell to that buyer. And if they do sell, the buyer is likely to pay a premium.
I have made offers on several properties and presented a very logical, comps-supported case for a lower price, only to have the sellers counter at full asking. So now I only make offers to motivated sellers. It's their home, there are lots of them out there and I don't want to spin my wheels playing out an unrealistic scenario.
The bottom line is: it doesn't matter what the market says the price should be; what matters is what the seller will sell it for and what the buyer is willing to pay. If there's a big disconnect, it's a timewaster all around. There are a lot of motivated sellers out there. Find one and make a deal-- that's the way to a win-win. Good luck!
You said it yourself without realizing it. They aren't motivated at all because they are paying 0 for mortgage and upkeep. Also, it's "family property" since they've owned it for so long and they have a higher value attached to if for that as well. They know eventually someone will pay their bottom line and don't care if it's now or next year or the year after. You have to consider their perspective also.
Well I am back with my update on the house situation after my last post on unclean houses we saw.
As a buyer I am really shocked at the attitudes of sellers. Here is the story:
My husband went to the place we were buying, in upstate New York in the Adirondacks. We looked at four towns and at 9 houses priced between $175,000 and $250,000. We were preapproved for a mortgage and using 60-80% cash down. We could have gotten LOTS more but didn't want to. We wanted to buy an old home with a maximum value of $250,000 in good condition or less than $175,000 for one that needed work. We found several and after a week house hunting we found one that seemed perfect for our needs though it needed work.
Lets talk about the house we made an offer on: The village it was in was small, remote and half of it was badly depressed but for our personal needs it fit the bill. It was a large Victorian era home that needed roof and other work to the tune of $50,000 or more to make it habitable. The house had been unoccupied for 5 years and on the market for more than a year! It was purchased 58 years ago and paid off. It had dozens of showings and no offers. It was being offered for $225,000. We knew that price was completely unrealistic as the CMA showed that homes sold for an average of $135,000 in the GOOD part of town. Still we liked it and wanted to negotiate.
After much discussion we made an offer for $160,000. They countered with $200,000. We countered by going up $12,000 but knew the work on that house would swallow the remainder of our money. Considering the remote location and no future potential to sell it for higher than we would pay (in a booming market even). The sellers realtor came back and said "Give us your last final price and my client's kids will get my client to accept the offer." Reluctantly we decided to play this game. We gave them a final firm price of $175,000 ... which with repairs would come out to their asking price or more.
They never came back. Our realtor went back to them and demanded they accept or reject the offer... after a week ... No news so we pulled our offer.
We were insulted that the clients would not even come back with a response. The town they live in is depressed, miles from a major town and as our realtor told them "This family are not just the perfect buyers for this house they may be the only buyers for this house."
We are now looking for another home.
Our big issue is something we see on this forum - SELLERS ARE UNREALISTIC ABOUT THEIR HOME PRICES IN THIS MARKET!
The seller would not budge below $200,000. We are sure they did not want to sell it unless they got a nice round figure. Now we told our agent to only show us houses that the sellers actually want to sell. We offered closing in 45 days - which for that area is lightnening fast!
These "sellers" wasted our time, tied up our money and have disillusioned us ... we not mercenary investment buyers, we just happen to have the personal money to buy a home at this point ... if sellers aren't going to be realistic they will not sell their homes ... at this point we won't even entertain re-negotiating with them or anyone who isn't motivated.
As I said before all of the houses seen were in disrepair, uncleaned and seemed to have no maintenance done on them, but buyers wanted top dollar! Yeesh ... - these also houses were put on the market during the boom! So sellers have a "hot market" mentality. Some people need to get over themselves ... the market has changed and sellers need to recognize that buyers at this time are making low offers because thats the value of the home as the market sees it. You are not "giving away the farm" you are selling your house for money - thats all.
Housing prices are going to continue to go down and buyers who offer today are going to be losing equity if the market keeps going down so anyone who comes with an offer is taking a risk on your home. Don't hate the player, hate the game!
If you don't have to sell, pull your home off the market and wait for the bottom and save yourself and others the hassle.
Come to Fredericksburg Texas, make me an offer (not too crappy) and I will answer you back.
Actually, I haven't answered anyone back. That's what the agent does. We tell the agent if we accept or reject the offer and then she gets back with the other agent and sometimes it goes back and forth.
Your counter offer to the sellers was too low regardless of whether it needed fixed up or not. Every house needs fixed up or some kind of repairs, especially an older house. Most houses are sold as is for that price although most sellers will negotiate the price but will be insulted on too low of offers.
In NM when we bought a house, nobody was willing to negotiate, whereas in Texas, they will.
We are all trying to get something for nothing but it doesn't always work that way.
When we put our house on the market (in Texas) recently, our agent set the price and we agreed.
Fbg. is an expensive town to live in and people that come here know that and should expect to pay top dollar. They also know the cost of the house before they come and look at it and although I don't expect anyone to offer what we are asking, I still want something out of it.
I do agree though that these people and the agent should have gotten back to you. That was rude on there part. I also think that when someone is selling a house that if anything major needs to be repaired or be painted, it should be done and I think that a house should be cleaned up and look presentable and uncluttered to the buyer.
Come to Fredericksburg Texas, make me an offer (not too crappy) and I will answer you back.
Ha ha! I lived in San Angelo for a time ... I LOVED Fredricksburg ... it has nice homes and deserves its higher prices than Austin or SA! Too bad for me!
Ha ha! I lived in San Angelo for a time ... I LOVED Fredricksburg ... it has nice homes and deserves its higher prices than Austin or SA! Too bad for me!
Yep, it's nice but it is so pricey. That's why I'm willing to take a lower offer on my home.
We've had 2 offers we accepted about a month ago and both of them backed out, one because they decided to get a divorce and another because of the flood plane; they wanted to eventually tear our place down and build closer to the creek. The bank decided not to loan them the money unless they agreed to pay 4000.00 yearly in flood insurance. I don't blame them for backing out. Still waiting for that person with THE offer. LOL
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