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As to what the seller paid for it, that's irrelevent. So they will make a profit. So what? What's important is that you get what you want for a price you aren't unhappy about paying. I mean, if you found out that the seller paid 5% more, would you be willing to increase your offer just to make sure she doesn't take a loss? Should she expect you to? Of course not.
Bill, I disagree with your point here. I think it is part of the equation what the seller paid for the home, because many people on this site and in general feel there is a "god given" right to make a tidy profit on a house. Even ones that bought at the "peak"...I mean really.....a house is a financial investment, but historically a lousy investment w/all the $ for maintenance/upkeep and not to mention the high front and back loads (ie closing costs...)
Historicals and what a seller purchased for are extremely important IMO..
Bill, I disagree with your point here. I think it is part of the equation what the seller paid for the home, because many people on this site and in general feel there is a "god given" right to make a tidy profit on a house. Even ones that bought at the "peak"...I mean really.....a house is a financial investment, but historically a lousy investment w/all the $ for maintenance/upkeep and not to mention the high front and back loads (ie closing costs...)
Historicals and what a seller purchased for are extremely important IMO..
With all due respect, Jack, people can believe they have whatever god given rights they want to believe thay have, but that doen't mean any buyer has an obligation to overpay to make sure the seller sees a profit. A buyer shouldn't much care what a current homeowner paid for the house. I know that many of them want to know, and I tell them when they ask, but I also tell them it's coincidental information, and not part of the equation. We don't care what they paid for it when they bought it, we just care what it's worth to us now. And for the seller to exercise that god given right to a profit, by how much over the comps should a buyer be willing to pay to help him out? How much profit is tidy?
And if a seller has a god given right to a profit, does a buyer have some god given right as well? Perhaps to be limit the profit made by the seller? What's a reasonable place to set the limit, do you think? Ten percent? Maybe 2 percent per year of ownership?
Bill, I disagree with your point here. I think it is part of the equation what the seller paid for the home, because many people on this site and in general feel there is a "god given" right to make a tidy profit on a house. Even ones that bought at the "peak"...I mean really.....a house is a financial investment, but historically a lousy investment w/all the $ for maintenance/upkeep and not to mention the high front and back loads (ie closing costs...)
Historicals and what a seller purchased for are extremely important IMO..
I agree with Bill - ultimately, the number that's important is what it's worth now - not what it was worth years ago. The last place we bought... the seller's paid 35K for it 45 years ago... they made a nice chunk of money. We could of said "let's lowball them because they are going to make a profit no matter what we offer!!!" As long as a buyer is getting a good fair price and the house doesn't turn out to be a money pit. Just my opinion. It's an interesting number but not as important as what some people make it out to be....
Bill, I disagree with your point here. I think it is part of the equation what the seller paid for the home, because many people on this site and in general feel there is a "god given" right to make a tidy profit on a house. Even ones that bought at the "peak"...I mean really.....a house is a financial investment, but historically a lousy investment w/all the $ for maintenance/upkeep and not to mention the high front and back loads (ie closing costs...)
Historicals and what a seller purchased for are extremely important IMO..
I agree with Bill. We don't know what improvements were made in those 3 years. We only know what they paid. If they paid 190 and got a fair price, which we don't know as it could be high, low, or fair and then made the listed MAJOR improvements.... You see, their price really doesn't matter because there is too much unknown. It only matters what it's worth now.
Bill, I think the point about the amenities is irrelevant at this point. The items that the seller put in their listing as upgrades are the items the seller is saying they will remove from the home. If they are only going down from their list price by $300 AND removing the bathroom cabinets and mirrors, the light fixtures, the fridge and the curtains then it's obvious they never meant to include them in the first place. Plus, that makes the house harder to move into because you are paying more PLUS you have to pay to replace all of those so-called upgrades that the seller removed.
I have never heard of anyone taking the bathroom cabinets with them, that's just strange.
this is my point. I was the bidder. The comps for the rooms/sq ftg are 180-200K. The seller is asking 239! After our bid went off the table offering 232! Still too much for the area. Did I mention, again, comps are 180-200K.
It's outside of Columbus.Home only on market 2 weeks at offer time(thus the problem, I know).
I want my home to appreciate. Uprgrades or not, it's hard to appreciate when you pay 2 much for a house because you outpace the comps in the 'hood.We all know that. The upgrades were for the homeowner.
The only upgrades that would have been left were
Brazilian hardwood floors-1st and 2nd floor
bathroom sink,cabinets and mirrors(remember they are coming out!)in all baths..so basically the ONLY upgrades left would be the kitchen counters and floor-which seller would take if seller could.
No, I'm not going to die to not have the home. I just could not believe the situation, considering the comps and owner still getting offerred more than what other homes are selling for. My bid is based upon my need for my money to appreciate,period. It's not an emotional issue-as is for the seller, obviously.
Isnt there such a thing as over upgrading your home?geez.
Upgrades on my former home, got my home SOLD, did not make my buying price nor cover the cost of those upgrades..so I AM a bitter buyer who wants restoration for what's going on in this market...coming out of a great school system, desireable area in Ohio.Oh, did I mention..i did not MAKE A PROFIT ON MY INVESTMENT. bought in 04, so ok, it's to be expected to an extent..but so did this buyer-bought in 04.why the HECK in this market where homes are NOT appreciating should seller make 49K off of me?The highest increase that home ever has been sold for in its 20 year history..in this depreciating market. I could care LESS about someone's profits.
I have mved on-just appreciate the mindset and view points over here..thankyou!
Last edited by cheleski68; 11-20-2007 at 06:46 AM..
I would say the seller over upgraded the house for the area. If the comps show 180-200k then that's what they show and there's no changing that. Obviously the upgrades were done for the owners benefit not resale or they wouldn't be trying to take them IMO.... The HGTV syndrome runs amok!
I'm betting they'll be kicking themselves 8 months from now when it's still on the market or they'll buy cheap stuff to replace the upgrades and store the other stuff for later use.
I also find it funny that they just shot back they'd take out the current stuff. I'll bet they have no idea what it'll take to do that or how much damage they'll do to it when removing it. Most cabnets and mirrors don't come out easy since they're meant to stay installed forever.
Thanks jimg..the mirrors were replaced by upgraded fancy mirrors. Seller claims-but didnt/wouldnt put it in writing that she was switching out upgraded cabinets and mirrors with original-but as you heard,it's an 80's home, so those were installed to the wall, not hanginig like a pic, so i'm sure at walk through time the whole house would be a different house and not show as well.
I agree, the best thing would be to remove what seller wants to keep and replace with other things. The agent claims seller didnt want to loose hundreds on window treatments. I shook my head, win the battle but loose the war for a couple hundred in window treatments. wow. This seller has obviously not sat on the market long enough. My hubby and I were dumbfounded-yet confident that there are sellers in that neighborhood now and or in January after the winter thaw hits that would appreciate the offer.
This is good conversation! Interesting to read ALL viewpoints.
These are interesting viewpoints... I agree with Jack and Bill.. what the house is worth in the market has nothing to do with what they paid for it like Bill said. However, how negotiations are going to go and whether the PB is going to be able to buy the house has very much to do with the the seller paid, or it can. Many sellers can't afford to take a loss so they won't negotiate down further than they feel they can. Therefore, the market value isn't affected by the purchase price the owner paid, but negotiations are. Also, I think Jack is trying to point out that the reason it was priced the way it is was due to what they paid and the upgrades...
what i dont get, nor have to assue is seller's debt:
the 70k take out for 'upgrades' 2mos ago(or for the next seller's home)
and the comps make it a bad investment for appreciation purposes.
As I mentioned, I understand having a price you cant go below for i'm still paying for the home I sold....
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