Period of when quality homes was the norm (recommendation, plumber, 2013)

[AhRainess]

I'm looking into buying a new home in a brand new development with a national builder such as Pulte Homes. I read some reviews on them as well as other national builders, and all of them have such terrible reviews. Number one complaint is poor construction and customer service after the house is signed off to the homeowner. This makes me wonder what period would you say quality homes were being built? Was it prior to 1950? I mean homes that doesn't cost a fortune to get the best builder, but homes that average folks can buy. From the reviews I read, there's no such thing as quality any more if you are not a millionaire. Large builders only concentrate on quantity of homes they sell vs. quality homes.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by summer_land

I'm looking into buying a new home in a brand new development with a national builder such as Pulte Homes.

By your thread title... I thought you said you wanted a quality home?

...what period would you say quality homes were being built? Was it prior to 1950?

Quality homes have always been built, everywhere and in every era... as well as the slap dash.

I mean homes that doesn't cost a fortune to get the best builder,
but homes that average folks can buy.

You're talking in circles again.

From the reviews I read, there's no such thing as quality any more if you are not a millionaire.

There never was before either.
(Millionaire ain't what it used to be but I get your point)

Aside from surface/finish items the pile of materials needed to construct a POS 2000sf whatever...
is just about the same as the pile of materials needed to construct a rather nice 2000sf whatever.
The difference between the two, aside from those surface/finish items, is almost entirely in the labor quality and the time required to do it right -- and **won't be recognized** by most buyers.

More/Better simply has a higher cost whatever the product or service.
Look at your own business and how that pricing works for analogies.

[TexasDillo]

Nothing against any of the national builders, but I'm a big fan of smaller builders, those building three or four homes at a time instead of those that build in huge numbers. I find that there seems to be much more attention to detail in both the design and quality of construction plus they tend to be more customer-service focused after the sale.

Look for a builder that has been in business for a few years. By that time, the builder likely has a good relationship with the subcontractors plus has demonstrated that he/she will likely be around for a few more years to make good anything that might not be perfect with your new home.

True story: I bought my new home about seven years ago. Two years into ownership, my water heater failed. I called the builder just to ask if he could refer me to a good plumber. Gave me the number to a good local plumber who he'd been working with for many years. Two hours later and before I'd even had a chance to call him, this same plumber shows up on my doorstep with a team of people and a new water heater, courtesy of my builder. No charge whatsoever.

Small builders just tend to treat you better.

[FalconheadWest]

Builders tend to all buy their lumber and materials from the same suppliers in any given area. There really isn't much difference between the builders except for what you want to add onto what they are wanting to do like extra insulation or higher seer HVAC.

2x4's tend to be 2x4's and 2x6's tend to be 2x6's no matter what builder. Concrete slabs have cable tension reinforcement.

It's bells and whistles that people usually see as quality. Does the house have brass fixtures or brushed nickel/oil rubbed bronze? Does the house have wrought iron spindles on the stairs or wood? If the front door fiberglass or solid wood?

All those things cost money, and the lower the price point, the less quality bells. The higher the price point, the higher quality and you get whistles with the bells.

[Silverfall]

Quality homes are built now in affordable price ranges. It is just a matter of the quality of the builder. We don't have large builders in my area. We are dominated by mom and pops. The quality of the construction depends on the quality of the subs and I find the builders that build good homes are on site all of the time.

I agree with FW that the cosmetics are what usually define quality for buyers. When most buyers see "bad" construction, what they see is bad finish work and low grade products. Drywall and finish carpentry makes a huge visual difference and when people see tape seams and bad cuts, they think the quality of the house is bad.

If you are buying a house in process of being built, hire a home inspector to come through and inspection during the different phases. Much easier to inspect electrical, plumbing, framing, etc when it is all open.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

There has never been a period when only quality homes were built. Always, throughout history, there have been both quality homes and poorly constructed homes built in the same year.

Normally, the top quality homes cost more, but that is no guarantee.

A 2X4 is not just a 2X4. There are different grades of lumber and there is a price difference in the grades. There are different grades of flooring and counter top materials and a huge difference in the price between them.

There can be huge amounts of difference in the cost of site preparation. There can be huge differences in the quality of the wiring.

A pile of the materials to build a cheap house and a pile of the materials to build a top quality house are no where near the same in cost.

There is a lot of difference in quality of workmanship and a price difference for the workmanship. Even good workmen can't do a good job if the contractor sets deadlines too tight because he wants houses turned out really fast.

OP, if you are hoping for a decent house, stop looking at houses built by a company that gets tons of bad reviews and has unhappy customers.

[Hemlock140]

Besides the difference in quality of lumber, there can be problems with the way it's stored, and how it's used. You can take a twisted 2x4 and straighten it enough to get a flush wall when nailing it in but that doesn't mean that it will stay that way for 20 years. Building inspectors cannot see every detail, a sub-par house may still meet minimum code requirements. I recommend that a really qualified home inspector be used even for a new home. I have seen great and mediocre quality homes built anywhere from 1900 to 2013. We are lucky now to have reviews available on the internet, but it also doesn't hurt to ring doorbells and ask people living at the homes they have built previously. Even then, their suppliers and/or subcontractors may have changed. As the cost of land, permits, and utility installations skyrocket, the developers look for other ways to maintain profit without pricing the homes out of the market, and quality suffers.

[Blondy]

I would go with a local builder who has a long relationship with the community he builds in.

I had an interesting experience with the home we just bought. Long story short house empty for a year and sewage lines dried up causing a backup. Plumber we called attempted to clear it unsuccessfully not knowing what the problem was and then came up with what I can only call a scam that involved thousands of dollars to tear up our house and fix plumbing/drains/sewer. Said it was a latent construction problem caused by driving heavy equipment over the pipes before the dirt over them was compacted and causing a dip. I should get the builder out and call my insurance co. It was a 7 year old house. Im sure he thought I would never get the builder out.

The incompetent plumber/scam artist told a good story, except that no one I ever spoke to ever heard of such a thing lol. Starting with one of the reputable builders in town that built my fathers house. The insurance co never heard of it.

I called the builder, told him the story. He remembered the house clearly and said he would send the plumber he used within the hour. Not long after the plumber showed up, he showed up. Plumber ran the all the water in the house for 10-15 minutes problem solved. No charge. No further plumbing problems.

Builder welcomed me to town. Told me how much he loved building my house; I already knew that because the first thing I noticed about the house is how solidly it was constructed. The home inspector also told me it was one of the most solidly constructed houses he's ever seen.

The plumber made sure I knew all about his daddy and his granddaddy being plumbers before him as surely we will need a plumber in the future lol. The builder just told me to call him if I had any other questions or problems.

I doubt you would get Pulte or someone like that out to your house with their subcontractors 7 years after they built it without an attorney's involvement.

[skiffrace]

DO NOT buy anything built in the 70s to early 80s. Those were the times of astronomical (15 or 16%) interest rates.
In order to offset the huge interest payments, builders at that time tried, even harder than usual, to squeeze out ever dollar out of the construction costs. That led to piece of @%$# construction quality being the general norm of those times.

Also, a lot of the national standards were not in place yet, such as the requirement to bolt the house to the foundation so it won't be shaken off during the earthquake.

The houses built 100 or more years ago had typically better framing timber, coming often from the old-growth forests. That obviously does not guarantee that the rest of the house is any better.

As far as appliances, they have a limited lifespan, typically 10 to 14 years for water heaters, 20 to 25 years for gas furnaces, regardless of what type of the house they are installed in.

Speaking in the most general terms: You are looking for a "quality house"? In the USA!? Are you familiar with the phrase "stick-built"? What kind of "quality" message do you think it conveys?

Last but not least, don't sweat it. All the houses here are shacks shoddily put together with sticks+plaster. The whole country is a willing subject to that scam (cheap, cheap) When you are ready to sell in a few years down the road, you will find a fool that will buy it from you.

[Sojj]

Originally Posted by FalconheadWest

2x4's tend to be 2x4's and 2x6's tend to be 2x6's no matter what builder. Concrete slabs have cable tension reinforcement.

This is so not true. There is a HUGE variation in the quality of dimensional lumber these days. A plank with a huge knot in the middle isn't much good for anything. If it is twisted, warped, bowed - some of these problems can be overcome (if it's not too badly twisted, warped, or bowed) with good construction techniques - but you will be lucky if your mega-builder hires anyone who knows how to handle such situations, or gives them the time to do it anyway.

I built my own house and I had to sort the lumber by hand or get stuck with a bunch of garbage. There were several building supply places I just wouldn't deal with at all because all their stuff was such low quality.

Megabuilders are not sorting. They are getting 16-wheelers with pallets of the stuff, at the cheapest rate they could negotiate, so whatever they get is what they build with. Floors in a mega-builder home are never truly level. Corners are not square. Things are seldom plumb and true. They usually aren't terribly obviously off to the naked and untrained eye, but they are ALWAYS off. Plumb and true takes a little extra time and a little extra care and isn't going to happen with twisted/bowed/warped lumber installed by whoever the foreman picked up in the grocery store parking lot that particular day. And I am NOT talking about illegal immigrants either. In this economy, there are guys standing around in parking lots praying somebody in a truck will come get them today from ALL ethnic and professional backgrounds. Not many of them are really good construction workers though, and even if they were, the megabuilder wants them in and out as fast as possible.

I feel your frustration, but my answer to it was to build myself, which I could do because I knew enough about building to do it, and I built rurally without having to worry about permits and inspections. Not that these things are bad in and of themselves, but even if you know what you are doing - and I hired done the things I didn't know - it can be difficult to get city inspectors to let you do it.

You could also be your own contractor, but you still have to gain the knowledge before you know enough to be able to evaluate your subcontractors.

If that isn't a possibility for you, then I would do as others have suggested and find a small builder, ask around, get recommendations. If there is a Mennonite community ask around there for a work crew and foreman. That's no guarantee of quality but chances are better. I don't tend to look for Amish in particular because it is chancier with the Amish than most folks think, especially me being a woman, and also because they sometimes charge you a bull*** amount for their transportation back and forth to the site, because they hire a guy with a van to do that then charge you a fortune. They were charging me $150 a day for their transportation - 3 guys, maybe 4 - to come 15 miles. In the mid 90's when gas was still under $1 a gallon. I could have rented a van and driven them around myself for much less, but they sprang it on me after the fact. So I prefer not to deal with Amish (there were also problems with the roof they put up) unless someone I know and trust can recommend a reliable work crew who don't think it's great sport to tweak the English. (he also ran my chainsaw without oil and destroyed it, then hid it from me). Anyway.

I think a small builder, well-known, well-established, and well-recommended is your best bet.