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When a stager puts up a lamp, its clearly what it purports to be -- a lamp. When a stager puts up a phony buyer its not what it purports to be. The presence of a lamp is not likely to influence the real potential buyers, but the presence of other potential buyers is. Really -- why is it being done in the first place?
And yes, appearances can be representations of fact. Fraud can easily be committed by appearances alone, without making verbal representations, and its no less a fraud.
I don't see how. They are simply people looking at the house. If a family is truly interested in the home, they will put in an offer whether others are there or not. Personally I don't think an open house is a very effective method of selling a home, but that may be a geographical phenomenon. In the Houston area, the few homes which have open houses are listed that way as a last ditch method of getting sold, mostly because they are either A. overpriced or B. butt ugly or both, and have been on the market a long time.
Capn, the people you've been mincing words with here have spent hours upon hours, helping many here, desperate for answers, most with no money to pay for help. The posters here are the best of the best and stuck it out for the general public when their own Realtors, bankers, and lawyers ran away from them during the height of the mortgage crisis. While I can't see a single one of them employing the tactics the OP posted about (lol, most would consider it a waste of money and effort), they also would not have a single item to file a complaint about on someone else employing these tactics with the Ethics Committee with the local Board of Realtors. But, unless they were vocal shills, just what would they report to anyone? I can hear it now, "and Mr. Jaquish, i understand your complaint against Mr. Hoffman is he had fake guests at his open house? How long were they there for?" Seriously, if you are in the legal field, just what would you even report? But to hint someone's reputation is in trouble for not speaking out against a practice, their integrity is in question? No sir, far from it, far, far from it. Integrity goes both ways, standing up for what is wrong and speaking up when its not really a big deal. All those little stars mean something here.... It means they're the good guys. Readers see that and feel safe.
As long as the RE agent made no verbal statements about the "intentions" of the shills, i.e., "look at all these people! I'm sure we'll have multiple offers by tomorrow" I guess I don't see a problem. I'd be more inclined to think the word got around the neighborhood that there were free munchies down the street AND you can check out their decorating at the same time.
Before you say what the agent was doing, is good or bad, look at the facts of the real estate business.
Fact #1: Open Houses are a prospecting tool, not to sell that particular home. Realtors do not really hold an open house to sell that particular house. They are holding the open house, to prospect for buyers and sellers, that they can list or sell other homes that are on the market. Finding prospects is the hardest part of the real estate business. If the Realtor is single, he/she is more apt to find someone they want to date, than find a buyer to buy that particular home.
Fact #2: Only 1% or 2% of the homes with open houses, are sold due to the open house. If an open house actually produces one or two prospective buyers or sellers that end up buying a home through or list with that Realtor, it is considered a very effective open house. Open houses are not planned or designed to sell that particular home.
Fact #3: A crowd at an open house, will indicate that neighborhood is popular to buyers. Helps to sell the neighborhood, much more than it sells that particular home. Often an open house, will not attract even one potential buyer or seller that the agent can do business with.
Fact #4: If the agent is an experienced agent, if they can figure out how to get crowds of people to an open house, they will do so, as the more visitors the more prospects they may sign up to sell a home or to list a home. Some open houses, never even have one visitor beyond neighbors who are curious about seeing the inside of the home to compare their own home against it.
Fact #5: No intelligent agent, is going to go to the expense and trouble of bringing in shills, to make people think they are buyers, as they really don't expect to sell that home anyway. To understand this, go back to Fact #1.
Does anyone else find it so silly that this is over one of the least effective methods of selling a home? I'd be more concerned with photoshopping and the like, but hey if you have an axe to grind...
We have a small restaurant in town. There are never any cars in the parking lot, so I am afraid to go there, since it appears to be no good. If they found some people from other businesses to leave their cars in the parking lot, I'd think it was a popular place.
That reminds me of a case study I had in college. A large regional retailer (Fleet Farm) wasn't getting customers in the door. The consultant they hired figured out it was because everyone thought the store was closed. The solution was simple; they had to have the employees park in the customer lot; the employees parked behind the store and entered in the back door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnTrips
So, if the number of people munching on horse'dervers should not be related to my offer in any way why then would an agent go out of his way to put them there?
What is irrelevant is how many homes are actually sold this way.
I can think of a handful of reasons. First and foremost, for the same reason customers visit car lots when the store is closed, they might not want to walk into an open house with just them and the agent. It is intimidating. Second, to insure that the open house is still going on. There are no cars; are they ready for us? Are we too early? Are they going to be packing up to leave?
I'm not so easily intimidated, but I know people that won't go eat by themselves, even at a Chipotle or whatever.
When the average city forum member reads this thread, who do you think is going to get more respect? The guys who are ok with putting up phony buyers or the guy that says its not right to do it?
For what it's worth, I'm a random member who read this thread. And I love the idea. In fact, when I sell my house in the next year or two, I'm going to absolutely stock my open house with extras, and I don't think it's slimy in the least.
Capn, the people you've been mincing words with here have spent hours upon hours, helping many here, desperate for answers, most with no money to pay for help. The posters here are the best of the best and stuck it out for the general public when their own Realtors, bankers, and lawyers ran away from them during the height of the mortgage crisis. While I can't see a single one of them employing the tactics the OP posted about (lol, most would consider it a waste of money and effort), they also would not have a single item to file a complaint about on someone else employing these tactics with the Ethics Committee with the local Board of Realtors. But, unless they were vocal shills, just what would they report to anyone? I can hear it now, "and Mr. Jaquish, i understand your complaint against Mr. Hoffman is he had fake guests at his open house? How long were they there for?" Seriously, if you are in the legal field, just what would you even report? But to hint someone's reputation is in trouble for not speaking out against a practice, their integrity is in question? No sir, far from it, far, far from it. Integrity goes both ways, standing up for what is wrong and speaking up when its not really a big deal. All those little stars mean something here.... It means they're the good guys. Readers see that and feel safe.
Like I said yesterday, I don't have an axe to grind against RE agents in general, and I have no doubt that these gentlemen have helped others on this forum. I have not dealt with any of them on a personal level, and have no basis to question anyone's integrity, nor was it ever my intention to do so. I am in no way "anti-agent," and I don't think that my disagreement on this issue merits the label.
My point in this thread was straightforward: The practice described is deceptive, period. It is not simply "staging," and though there was no allegation about vocal "extras" bidding on the house, having them there at all is just one step closer to that. Nor can the listing agent in question guarantee that none of the extras involved may engage a real buyer in conversation and try to help out just a bit more in exchange for their sandwich. You can justify the practice by saying its a tough market out there, lots of competition, its the way its done, nobody would rely on it, no homes are sold this way, etc., but none of that changes the fact that it is essentially deceiving buyers. And, as I pointed out several times, if its so useless and meaningless, then why do it at all?
It's clear that none of the gentlemen on this forum have actually engaged in this practice (or admitted to it), and no, its not such a major thing that I expected them to march to the person's office with torches and a noose in their hands, nor am I suggesting that alone this practice would justify a lawsuit, but I was a bit taken aback by the way that it was brushed off as just another creative ploy. Only one realtor seemed to grasp that there was maybe something "off" about the whole thing.
It would seem to me that an agents reputation should be very important to him. While as a seller I might be the sort of person who would be impressed by this tactic, as a buyer I would be wary of dealing with anyone who thinks that deception has any acceptable place in the marketing of homes. One of the agents involved has said that he stands by his statements, and is not concerned about damage to his reputation. That's fine, its his right to conduct business any way he likes, and he probably knows his client base better than I do. But there enough negative posts here, other than mine, to suggest that not everyone thought it was so ok.
I am on this forum because I am interested in the topic, because I wish to learn, and because I feel that my input may also be of some value to others. Other forum members may read this thread and reach their own conclusions.
when my house was on open house, I discovered several of my neighbors came in to have a look around. I guess they were free extras as well.
My agent was contacted by some other agent who wanted to do the open house so I suppose it's a matter of some agent looking for prospects.
I never new agents held "agent only" open houses also.
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