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So if an HOA board is all that keeps neighborhoods from being filled with cars on blocks, why is that there are tons of non-HOA neighborhoods without cars on blocks?
You've apparently never tried to sell a home with THAT neighbor. I have. It definitely hurts value and makes the home more difficult to sell.
One study in 50+ years of mass produced housing burdened with HOAs and that's all they were able to come up with? The study was flawed and it focuses on the Washington, DC area - an area hardly typical of the remainder of the country. Just because it is written doesn't make it so. Oh and they didn't include several of the costs including the risk of losing the home entirely, the loss of use and enjoyment of the home, the constant bickering, the litigation vortex, etc. It seems they showed the HOA houses cost more and consumers got less - not that the consumers valued an HOA.
Even the fundamentals behind the report were incorrect - there was an absurd assumption that developers were building HOA-burdened subdivisions because such housing was in demand by consumers. The HOA is there to benefit the developer and local government. Local government mandates those HOAs.
I don't see that anywhere it states the bold and I've read through it several times over the last few years. There is no need to conduct thee studies which is why they are rare and you cannot conduct a study on something like this, or anything really, until time has passed to let the "newness" wear off.
If you want another one here is a quick search, this is a FL study from 2012 or 2014 I don't have that page pulled up anymore. I'm sure you will come up with another reason as to why this study is wrong though.
Quote:
Our findings suggest that properties in HOAs sell at a premium compared to non-HOA properties, and this is persistent across various specifications for incorporated jurisdictions and unincorporated county areas. Specifically, houses that belong to HOAs sell for, on average, a seven percent premium over houses that do not reside in HOAs. Specifically, houses that belong to HOAs sell for, on average, a seven percent premium over houses that do not reside in HOAs. In addition, HOA properties in larger associations tend to sell for less. When the price effect is allowed to vary over time, the premium is immediately larger, but then decreases over time. This suggests that the housing market is quick to capitalize the benefits of the HOA into prices.
And this quote I found interesting so I'm including it.
Quote:
Finally, properties located immediately outside of the HOAs seem to benefit as well: they too sell at a premium relative to other non-HOA properties, although the magnitude is much smaller. This premium marginally increases in the number and size of the neighboring HOAs.
Hello, is it possible for an HOA to issue a fine against the unit owner if one of their unannounced guests are caught speeding on the access road within the complex?
How do they establish a legal infraction? The assessment of the violation was based on the observations of the HOA security team. Can they use radar and enforce that?
Why fine the owner instead of the guest?
Hire an attorney and take them to court. Deluge them with discovery motions and subpoenas. I would start by requesting details of all "speeding" tickets issued within the last three years and information about their "observation" method of determining a vehicle's speed. Did the security team receive special training, etc? Even the most dedicated volunteer HOA Nazi won't enjoy using their vacation time or the remaining days in their miserable life as a retiree to do depositions or provide testimony in court. This is a case that the HOA cannot win and sometimes the best way to get new leadership in place is to force them to start spending HOA funds fighting this stuff out in court.
Bullies love it when their victims won't fight back and that is what HOAs count on when they do this stuff.
You're the proponent of involuntary membership HOAs - the burden is on you to provide some evidence of benefit.
Perpetual liens that can never be paid off do not "enhance property values".
Private "fines" do not "enhance property values"
Transfer fees paid to management companies do not "enhance property values".
Demands for $$ "assessments" accompanied withthreat of foreclosure do not "enhance property values".
Allowing an organization to use your house as security for debt that the organization racks up and for which you have no control is beyond stupid. The only reason to purchase such property is because there wasn't a choice.
Really this is silly for you to suggest otherwise.
You'll find the HOA corporation has no obligation to do any such thing. You have a blind obligation to pay money and no corresponding obligation on the other side to do anything. The HOA isn't there to help you it is there to disenfranchise you and to transfer financial liabilities to you. Oh I forget - you're on the board. Of course you like HOAs. You're immune from being a target, other homeowners are forced to fund insurance coverage for you while you enjoy going around threatening neighbors with foreclosure lest they do your bidding.
Yeah - sort of like "go to the back of the bus and don't get on if you don't like the rules".
Lol, I have no burden to prove as anything. You don't like HOA communities? Fine, to each his own. Stay out and we both will be happy. Problem solved.
Some even require that the homeowner be with their guest...not just a permission slip or bracelet...on all common (therefore private to the HOA residents) areas. Very difficult for those with even a little less mobility but that's that.
The real question is can anyone but law enforcement issue speeding tickets? Consult an attorney because that's a legal question and not a real estate question.
No, that's not the "real" question because the HOAs aren't issuing "real" speeding tickets. As someone who has lived in a gated community with private roads and roving armed security guards, I am familiar with the process. The guards issue "violation notices" that state that the offender has violated the HOA rule regarding driving more than 15mph or 20mph through the development. It is akin to receiving a violation notice for violating any other HOA rule, such as having your trash cans out on the street on a non-trash day.
Anyone who receives a violation notice, be it for speeding, running a stop sign, or having your trash cans out on the wrong day, is then entitled to appeal the violation at a hearing conducted by the appropriate HOA Committee. If the violation is upheld, the homeowner is fined a specific amount as provided for in the HOA guidelines.
Regardless of whether the violation was for speeding, stop signs, or parking, the fines are not motor vehicle violations and have absolutely nothing to do with the DMV or any state agency.
You've apparently never tried to sell a home with THAT neighbor. I have. It definitely hurts value and makes the home more difficult to sell.
Exactly. In neighborhoods where everyone is neat and tidy and respects the community the HOA probably doesn't add much value(but surely doesn't hurt property values). If you have neighbors like that then you're in luck. Then there are the examples where the HOA does have to get involved to keep the neighborhood clean and orderly and in those cases it is certainly a boon to property values. To each their own on whether you want to live in an HOA or not but I don't see how people can argue they never protect or increase property values.
I don't see how people can argue they never protect or increase property values.
Because they don't in our area. We ran up a list of sales costs for homes in our area that were all built within 10 years of one another. Some were updated. Some were not. No sign of increased property values for active HOA homes.
For every neighborhood where the HOA are responsible for keeping properties tidied up, there are other neighborhood that are plenty tidy without the hassle.
Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 03-08-2016 at 10:14 AM..
You know there is actually studies that prove they increase values right? Here is one conducted by CATO using 2000-2004 sales data. The overall scope is small, limited to five zip codes in VA, but they did a really good job comparing HOA vs non-HOA if you read the report it is explained. That study says "we find that HOAs raise house value by 5.4 percent." It also says those gains are "the increase in value after
all the benefits and costs of HOAs are summed."
According to this 2005 article, mean home values for property sold in Prince William County, VA is $256K for those in HOAs. Non-HOA homes mean sales price is $313K.
Then they go through some complicated data analysis by zip code and so forth to announce that even though non-HOA homes sell for $57K more, HOA's raise house values by 5.4%.
In referring to a previous study that did not come to this same odd conclusion:
"In this the authors look at the effect of association fees on sales prices, and they find that higher fees are associated with lower prices. We believe their model is misspecified and misinterpreted. Without going into those problems in detail, consider that Langbein and Spotswood-Bright find that associations that provide more services have lower sales prices, even after hold- ing fees constant. We should be suspicious of any empirical model that produces results at such variance with economic theory and common sense "
We should also be suspicious of conclusions reached by data manipulation that does not correspond to actual data or observation in the real world.
People want to believe that HOAs raise property values, therefore it is "common sense" that they would raise property values.
But data does not support this notion.
One would suspect if there were studies around about HOA increasing property values, developers would be waving these very time you drove by an HOA. Assessors would be using them to justify higher assessed values.
Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 03-08-2016 at 10:14 AM..
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