Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Does the home inspector check to see if there are permits? Is that part of his job?
Probably not.
But, if the seller does not provide you with closed out permits, assume that there were no permits and no inspections.
It is the sellers job to provide basic bona fides for the property. Caveat Emptor rules, so always assume the potential for no permits unless seller provides clear documentation.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,487 posts, read 3,338,908 times
Reputation: 9913
You can also look for yourself if there were any permits pulled for the property you are looking at.
Ask the seller if they have the closed out permits. At some point we have to start looking at things ourselves instead of relying on others.
If a house looks like it is flipped, do the due diligence and check local records.
We were just checking on things for our new build and discovered that a permit was needed and gotten for the pool heating system. We didn't know a permit was needed for that! We are doing our due diligence and checking the permit stages on the building process.
We also visit the site after workers are gone. We did find a 2x4 that was broken almost in half in the framing of a wall. We wrote on it 'replace' with arrows pointing to the break. The next time we were out there, we see they have sistered a new 2x4 onto it and that sucker isn't moving a bit.
Overkill? Maybe but they know we are watching.
Not sure if it is the right thing to do but it is our house...
But, if the seller does not provide you with closed out permits, assume that there were no permits and no inspections.
It is the sellers job to provide basic bona fides for the property. Caveat Emptor rules, so always assume the potential for no permits unless seller provides clear documentation.
I didn't think they checked for permits either but I was hoping I might be wrong.
Does the C of O have anything to do with lack of permits?
I didn't think they checked for permits either but I was hoping I might be wrong.
Does the C of O have anything to do with lack of permits?
In a renovation, you have to have a Certificate of Occupancy to call the job done and property habitable. To get that C of O, all permits have to be closed out.
It may be called a Certificate of Completion, or some other name, but generally the inspections department with jurisdiction has to approve the completion.
Of course, there are huge variations of the meanings among the zillions of municipalities regulating and permitting construction, so you need to be focused on how things work in your local area.
At a recent showing, the sellers provided the engineer's design for structural changes, and the permit signed off by the town inspectors, as well as the itemized paid invoices from the GC who did the work for them.
That sets the bar pretty high for most renovation resales, "flipped" or not.
You can also look for yourself if there were any permits pulled for the property you are looking at.
Ask the seller if they have the closed out permits. At some point we have to start looking at things ourselves instead of relying on others.
If a house looks like it is flipped, do the due diligence and check local records.
We were just checking on things for our new build and discovered that a permit was needed and gotten for the pool heating system. We didn't know a permit was needed for that! We are doing our due diligence and checking the permit stages on the building process.
We also visit the site after workers are gone. We did find a 2x4 that was broken almost in half in the framing of a wall. We wrote on it 'replace' with arrows pointing to the break. The next time we were out there, we see they have sistered a new 2x4 onto it and that sucker isn't moving a bit.
Overkill? Maybe but they know we are watching.
Not sure if it is the right thing to do but it is our house...
I guess I'm going to have to check for permits when I get to the point of buying. So many of the houses I see are so ..perfect.. They're staged to perfection with not one personal item visible and you can tell everything is brand new. Even some of the appliances still have the plastic on them.
I think it's a wise move to keep an eye on a new build and try to catch mistakes as they happen.
Well, not all flippers follow the same guidelines. I've seen excellent and thorough repairs on flips and I've seen the lipstick on a pig flips, and some that weren't even as good as lipstick on a pig.
I wouldn't refuse a home because it had been flipped but I'd get inspections done to be safe.
They used the cheapest materials available and take every possible shortcut. They also often self perform as much of the work as possible and you have no idea whether they know what they are doing.
You cannot rely on inspectors. They are looking for obvious code violations, They do not test every connection, review every bit of work to see whether the correct size of nails and spacing were used. They look at samplings, and mostly just look to see any obvious code violations.
Developers also use cheap materials and take shortcuts, but they often have to protect their company from liability. Flippers generally are not concerned with liability. If you find defect, they will just BK the flipper company, if it even still exists. Smart flippers set up an LLC, flip 10 or so houses and then empty out the LLC and start another one. Some developers do that too, but some rely on developing an ongoing reputation. Thus, you re a lttle safer with a developer than a flipper.
Buying a non-flip home is nearly as risky, but at least you know most people will pay for quality and be a bit more careful if it is their own home. (Most, not all - of course there will be examples of Billy-Bob reparis or "upgrades" hose can usually be caught by inspectors).
The best protection is to know what you are looking for. A home with nearly all 15 amp circuits may look fine to a house inspector, but may not be what you want. There is nothing technically "wrong" with 3/8" drywall, but I would not want it in my house. Poor carpentry workmanship may be exhibited in ways that are not technically defects, but which make all the work suspect. Blocking in floor joists is a good example. Blocking is required. It does not need to be in straight lines or even evenly staggered, but that shows they did the work with pride and with an eye to making things consistent so someone working on the home later can find the blocking (for example). A line of blocking that drifts all over the place and seems sort of random, is not usually a problem and would not be reported because there is nothing to say about it, but it is a sign that at elast some of the owrk was half-hazard.)
No, but not the reasons cited. Here, NJ, the flippers are pretty good. You won't end up with a lemon. However, areas get flipped to the point if you grew up (as a child) in an area, and come back from college wanting a home all the homes (that no one is living in) have been priced out. If you're making a good or decent salary, it's sort of ok. You'll find something in a sh*t area. If you're truly poor or can't afford a down payment, you have to pay very terrible rents. Most of the people buying in NJ in recent years have been transplants from NY where it's more expensive. These new prices are a "deal" for them. They'll buy whatever to own or rent. I don't support the philosophy. It really breaks up communities.
In a renovation, you have to have a Certificate of Occupancy .......
That applies to East coast states. There is no such thing as a certificate of occupancy on the west coast.
Permits have to be finalized and those records are down at the county building department. For my county, they are online, but not all permits make it to the online site, so if they don't show up with an internet search, you have to go down to the county offices, where everyone is very friendly and helpful, by the way..
I'm looking at homes for sale now and I look at the sales history just to see if it is a flip. No, I wouldn't buy a flipped home because I don't know what they've done to it and if it was done correctly.
One house I saw was purchased one month before it was put back on the market. It looked like something right out of an HGTV commercial. Maybe the house was perfect and just needed cosmetic work, or maybe not. I'm not taking that chance.
But isn't this true of any home. Couldn't the previous owner have done a lot of poor renovations themselves and created a lot of problems? Wouldn't a good inspection find most of the problems and a check at city hall find what they received permits to do and what they didn't receive permits for?
I know someone that flipped an investment property they had owned for years. They did a ton of work on it because their last set of tenants trashed the place forcing them to do a complete remodel. The place turned out beautiful and the buyers got a good deal with a new kitchen, new windows, new heating and AC, all new hardwood floors and fresh paint.
So to answer the OP's question, yes I would consider a flip but I would also make sure that they got all their permits and inspections as well as having a good inspection done. Jay
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
