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You argue with yourself in the first sentence. "Until the developer wishes to yield control".
There was no argument at all. The HOA corporation is an entity wholly separate and apart from the homeowners or the developer. The HOA is also initially controlled by the developer for as long as the developer wants. Having control or ceding control does not alter the fact and the legal reality that the HOA corporation is an entity wholly separate and apart from the the homeowners and the developer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
CONTROL. YEP. Within the scope of the municipality/state/fed laws, and covenants/restrictions the HOMEOWNERS can pass any bylaws they want. They ARE the HOA, they CONTROL the HOA, they FUND the HOA reserves, they PAY the management ....etc etc.
No, the homeowners are not the HOA corporation.
No, the homeowners do not pay "the management".
At best only a few homeowners "control" the HOA corporation. The few homeowners on the board of directors are still separate and apart from the HOA corporation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
NO, for example they can't pass a noise decibel bylaw because the TOWNSHIP can't even measure that. PER the police. Which is why so many HOA bylaws have some ambiguity.
Now you're going off the deep end.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
The vendors? LMFAO. What vendors? The guys who do the landscaping? Uh, no. EVERY vendor is chosen by the homeowners, for goodness sakes.
Uh no, the HOA corporation board determines the vendors - not the homeowners.
Sometimes the management company contracts for control of vendor selection.
In either case, the HOA vendors are NOT chosen by "the homeowners"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
LEGAL TEST: By law, IF the homeowners chose to dissolve the community as an condo HOA, and sell it THEY get the revenue proceeds for the sale. Same even if you dissolve a non-condo HOA and there is money sitting there.
Making your argument wrong.
Condos are a different creature than HOAs. However, those differences aren't relevant to this discussion. What do you believe you are "proving" with your "legal test" and by what illogic do you reach your conclusion? The HOA corporation is still NOT the homeowners. The statute you refer to addresses termination of the HOA entity. A succession path for distribution of assets owned by an entity being terminated does not meant that the entity being terminated is the same entity as the recipients of the assets. Do you also foolishly believe the homeowners are terminated when the HOA is terminated? Your legal test is quite non-sensical and is not any kind of legal test. The HOA corporation is an entity separate and apart from the homeowners or the developer.
Where do people get these ideas? Oh...because they never owned in one.
The first paragraph of the article you cited states:
A homeowners' association (HOA) is a legal entity, with a separate identity from its collective homeowner-members. Depending on state laws, an HOA is usually either a corporation or a nonprofit organization, and as such must comply with state law regarding both formation and dissolution.
So you claim I was wrong and yet in support of your [erroneous] position you cite an article the very first paragraph of which supports my statement. You've tripped and fallen, runswithscissors. The inevitable your mother warned you about obviously happened.
Not stuck. Contact an attorney. You can file a lawsuit about anything. You can ask for damages, and they will have to appear in court.
Start with talking to an attorney, because they will give you options. The first might be a letter from the attorney advising them they need to stop the noise, or this will become a legal matter. But again, start with the attorney who has dealt with real estate law, called a real estate attorney. Too often people don't contact professionals to get a problem resolved, because they listen to people that tell them there is nothing they can do and they are stuck.
You can ask for anything you like, getting them is a totally different matter. In court one must prove damages...a ball on the wall is a pretty huge gamble when your on the hook for lawyer fees.
Why does everyone think the HOA is actually there for their benefit?
The HOA is there for the benefit of the developer, local government, and the HOA vendors, not you.
Anyone using the pseudonym "lots of money" should spend a little in hiring competent counsel rather than seeking opinions from anonymous internet posters. If you don't want to spend money on counsel, you could also perform additional research to see if you can pursue a claim in a justice or small claims court where you live.
You must have an alert setup for when an HOA thread is started.
I rent in a condo with an HOA. For the last few months I have a neighbor who has a loud system, however the only thing I ever hear is the bass sometimes for hours and hours. The problem is we can't figure out which unit it is coming from which apparently is pretty common when you're dealing with a bass.
First my HOA sent out letters to all the units in my building. When that didn't stop the manager told me to contact our security guard who thought it was coming from the unit that shares my back wall. They were sent an additional letter and claimed it wasn't them and had the manager come to their unit. It continued, this past Sunday it was all day. It isn't as much loud as it is annoying, that constant boom, boom, boom for hours on end. Manager told me to call her the next time I heard it which was last night. She heard the noise but disagreed that it was a bass which it clearly is as my son is a guitarist. She is trying to tell me it is construction noise from the townhomes being built a half mile away. Why would I hear this from 8:30 a.m.-midnight if it was construction noise? Then she tells me it might be people walking or toilets flushing in other units. WTF lady? I've been here almost 4 years and this bass sound only started in the last month.
While their notices to all building 4 residents spouts off some rule about noise, she told me unless she gets other complaints it is a "resident to resident" problem and that I should call the guard or the police again. The guard may be able to pinpoint the source but you don't hear it from outside the units.
While I considered, at one time, buying in here when my lease is up, this has surely changed my mind. That constant bass caused me to almost have a panic attack over the weekend. I had to take a tranquilizer and put in earplugs and watch TV with the closed caption on. I have copied the management company of my particular unit whenever I have emailed the condo manager so if I do have to break my lease (5 months left) I have it all documented.
You argue with yourself in the first sentence. "Until the developer wishes to yield control".
CONTROL. YEP. Within the scope of the municipality/state/fed laws, and covenants/restrictions the HOMEOWNERS can pass any bylaws they want. They ARE the HOA, they CONTROL the HOA, they FUND the HOA reserves, they PAY the management ....etc etc.
NO, for example they can't pass a noise decibel bylaw because the TOWNSHIP can't even measure that. PER the police. Which is why so many HOA bylaws have some ambiguity.
For example, they cannot age restrict the community without following the HUD laws but they CAN chose to do so if they wish. NO DEVELOPER or "local government" or "vendor" has any say in the decision. You can't make it "ONLY UNDER AGE 40" for example because that violates federal law which only protects senior class.
LOLOLOL Of course the HOA was created by the developer until they sold enough units. The HOA is comprised of the homeowners. The developer turns it over to the homeowners when they reach approximately 70% sales occupancy. It's a LEGAL turnover. I don't even know WHAT you're trying to argue, TBH.
The vendors? LMFAO. What vendors? The guys who do the landscaping? Uh, no. EVERY vendor is chosen by the homeowners, for goodness sakes.
Local Governments? Uh, nope. They only care that a community is built according to their stupid growth restriction requirements and the covenants are maintained for the land use..
LEGAL TEST: By law, IF the homeowners chose to dissolve the community as an condo HOA, and sell it THEY get the revenue proceeds for the sale. Same even if you dissolve a non-condo HOA and there is money sitting there.
REGULAR HOA: Title to the HOA-owned portions of the development must usually be transferred to another legal entity when the HOA is dissolved, or else divided among individual homeowners.
You might be able to sell these assets to an investor willing to take over maintenance responsibilities. Most investors will expect a reasonable profit in return.
The HOA corporation is an entity completely separate from the homeowners - and separate from the developer (although it will be developer controlled until such time as the developer wishes to yield control). The purpose of the HOA corporation is to shift liability onto the homeowners and to shift control away from the homeowners.
The HOA corporation (in virtually every case) was created by the developer and for the primary benefit of the developer, his financier, local government, and the vendors. The "homeowners" weren't at the table when the restrictive covenants imposing involuntary membership in the HOA were created. The developer had unilateral control of the HOA until the developer chose to give it up.
You can make foolish statements to your heart's content. Don't be so absurd as to suggest the "the HOA is the homeowners". That's a patently false statement. The homeowners are but involuntary members of the corporation. The HOA corporation is an entity separate and apart from the homeowners - even in your state.
As far as short term renting is concerned - if there is a restriction against it then YOU can enforce it yourself. There is no HOA needed. If there is no such restriction then an HOA has no business being involved. Again no reason for an HOA. If the other landowner (or tenants) were engaged in illegal activity again you have the ability to contact local law enforcement yourself. HOAs are not governments. The HOA corporation agents are likewise limited to contacting local law enforcement.
Ooh, gotcha! I'm sure that's what you were thinking. Except not. A corporation is just a legal business structure and yes, once the developer transfers control, the homeowners are in fact in control. They are the shareholders, they elect the board (who are also homeowners in the community), and if a majority want, they can amend the bylaws or covenants. They can also kick out a board if they feel they aren't acting in the best interests of the majority of owners. There is no "shifting control" away from the homeowners to some scary corporation.
And actually, there is a benefit to having an incorporated HOA, which is to protect the individual owners from personal legal liability for the actions of the HOA or another individual homeowner. It's also a legal entity for tax purposes, and for the purposes of entering into contracts to benefit the HOA as a whole, customarily for things such as hiring a management company, landscaping, snow removal, building maintenance, etc.
And no, the HOA is not a government, but many of them have rules in place regarding rentals, which would have a been a resource to deal with that particular homeowner, and advise them that they were in violation of the CC&Rs and have them follow the rules in place regarding renting out their home.
But unfortunately, none if this helps with the OP's issues, because it's almost certain that there are no explicit rules against the kind of noise and disturbance they are dealing with. As I mentioned before, there are no rules to make people use common courtesy.
Please tell me this is not true! Please tell me that if I move because of the choices of my neighbors, that I am not responsible for disclosing the choices of my neighbors lest I be sued!
.
I guess so. I've heard of people moving because there was a sinking area in their yard, they covered it up and sold. I've also heard of people sued over issues that were significant indeed but the previous owner truly didn't know about the issue. And people who sell when they get a whisper that a big special assessment is coming up but not yet made public....and the buyer gets hit with it all without any choice and sues.
That said, when people sue they can sue the sellers, the agents on both sides, the home inspector, the appraiser, etc. etc. as people will do these days.
I rent in a condo with an HOA. For the last few months I have a neighbor who has a loud system, however the only thing I ever hear is the bass sometimes for hours and hours. The problem is we can't figure out which unit it is coming from which apparently is pretty common when you're dealing with a bass.
First my HOA sent out letters to all the units in my building. When that didn't stop the manager told me to contact our security guard who thought it was coming from the unit that shares my back wall. They were sent an additional letter and claimed it wasn't them and had the manager come to their unit. It continued, this past Sunday it was all day. It isn't as much loud as it is annoying, that constant boom, boom, boom for hours on end. Manager told me to call her the next time I heard it which was last night. She heard the noise but disagreed that it was a bass which it clearly is as my son is a guitarist. She is trying to tell me it is construction noise from the townhomes being built a half mile away. Why would I hear this from 8:30 a.m.-midnight if it was construction noise? Then she tells me it might be people walking or toilets flushing in other units. WTF lady? I've been here almost 4 years and this bass sound only started in the last month.
While their notices to all building 4 residents spouts off some rule about noise, she told me unless she gets other complaints it is a "resident to resident" problem and that I should call the guard or the police again. The guard may be able to pinpoint the source but you don't hear it from outside the units.
While I considered, at one time, buying in here when my lease is up, this has surely changed my mind. That constant bass caused me to almost have a panic attack over the weekend. I had to take a tranquilizer and put in earplugs and watch TV with the closed caption on. I have copied the management company of my particular unit whenever I have emailed the condo manager so if I do have to break my lease (5 months left) I have it all documented.
Chiluvr, I can't tolerate a bass sound either. Effects my inner ear and makes me nauseated. A thought. See if it's actually from a vehicle parked near your place. Maybe even with lights off. Go outside and see what you can find.
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The HOA is comprised of the homeowners. The developer turns it over to the homeowners when they reach approximately 70% sales occupancy. It's a LEGAL turnover. I don't even know WHAT you're trying to argue, TBH.
