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My last two homes were new builds in small developments (75 homes). I have also had 1 other new build. Builders do not like to negotiate on the list price. I have gotten 2-3% off but could get no more and I know how to negotiate. Where they will negotiate is on upgrades. Better carpet, hardwood over carpet, upgraded flooring, upgrade appliances, upgraded bathrooms, upgrade lighting, screened porch, etc.
Go for the upgrades you want and wheel and deal on them. Your bottom line will be more than 2-3% off.
I always bought at the end of the building cycle (last 20%) so there were no surprises like amenities not delivered, cheaper models being built, fewer new homet left to sell so mine held its value from the get go, traffic was what it was going to be, quality of neighbors showing, able to view and evaluate financial for dues/reserves if in an HOA, etc.
In Arizona, Toll Brothers houses are just more visually appealing than the others, as a general rule. That’s got to help when it comes time to sell, if for no other reason than it won’t be on the market as long.
But you’d think it would hold it’s slightly higher value just the same as all the rest hold their value.
What has been their general price history? Smart money or risky premium ?
It’s just a tract home builder. The prices will do whatever the local area real estate does. Toll Bros is t anything magical. Just another big tract house developer. They have the range of quality and price points.
For years I used to do tract housing . The only ones that were worth a damn were the smaller custom tract builders or the custom home builders. The large 5/10 phase big tract house master planned community builders were the worse. Shoddy everything from ground up.
I was called in to plenty of lawsuits by homeowners who sued builders over shoddy construction. They named the subcontractors in the lawsuits so a lot of times the companies I worked for were defendants.
Imo the quality got worse as the pace got faster. Now it’s even worse because a lot of the trades are hiring untrained people because they cannot find enough quality tradesmen.
I would really research the builder and I would like to see the houses in their framing stages roped and plumbed right before they throw drywall up. This will show you the quality of the work of the different trades before they forever are buried under Sheetrock.
The inspectors cannot find every problem because they are doing 8-10-12 inspections a day and cannot catch everything. If I was building or having a house built by a builder I would want my own inspector to oversee the build. Yes it would cost more but it’s gonna cost even more 4/5 years down the road after the warranty is up a d I have a rotting or broken whatever that’s gonna cost 15k to fix.
In general, new construction and that too with the pricey higher end Toll options, depreciate faster. Three reasons
1) Its like driving off a new car off the lot, once its off the lot, it will depreciate immediately
2) Other people may not value the bells and whistles as much as the owner who built the home so its unlikely you would get the same price back when you sell it.
3) Toll and 'me-too Toll' types builds hundreds of homes that are similar in the general area, so there ends up being not much truly unique about the homes and new similar homes come up fast so there are sufficient newer alternatives available that are customizable and therefore could be more attractive to buyers.
That being said, these homes are very pretty and functional. As long as schools and general area is good, they should hold value. These days everything is going up in price, Toll or not and selling well, so I would say real estate is cyclical and local!
Area Homebuilders Involved in Litigation or Arbitration
These builders in the Greater Philadelphia region have been involved in lawsuits or arbitration related to water intrusion.
200 Christian St. Partners
AGA Developers LLC
The Benson Cos.
Chetty BuildersInc.
Cope Homes Inc.
D3 Development LLC
The David Cutler Group
Joseph Falcone Construction Co.
Guidi Homes Inc.
Hellings BuildersInc.
Judd Builders Inc.
K. Hovnanian Eastern Pennsylvania LLC
Loonstyn Bros Construction LLC
Megill Homes
Milford Builders Inc.
Moser Homes LLC
PRDC Properties LLC
Provident Homes Corp.
PulteGroup
NVR Inc.
Streamline Solutions LLC
TAG Builders Inc.
Thompson Homes Inc. Toll Brothers Inc.
W.B. Homes
Wilkinson Enterprises Inc.
Universal Cos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickcin
Regardless, the specific house, location and current real estate market at the time of the sale will determine the selling price of the house.
Especially if it's over priced
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
While location is primary, the house certainly matters greatly in regards to resale pricing. Functional obsolescence from poor or short-term-trendy-now-passe design or poor maintenance will make a house sell for less than a similar but more desirable house next door.
I.e., just wait until enough people decide that fake "hand-scraped" plank flooring or food prep in the living room are not acceptable, and those trends pass a tipping point. There will be huge hits to price that location will not fix.
Agree. Everything on their web site looks "trendy" and like a passing fad, especially in this house. Their white kitchen cabinets look like cheap Depot cabinets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91
In Arizona, Toll Brothers houses are just more visually appealing than the others, as a general rule. That’s got to help when it comes time to sell, if for no other reason than it won’t be on the market as long.
But you’d think it would hold it’s slightly higher value just the same as all the rest hold their value.
I'll add your link plus quote it, it adds to the shock value of what you're posting. A lot of people will just pass by your reply because it's only a link. I'm going to see if NJ has a similar case and share the link in the FB group for my development as we have people who have water damage at windows, front doors, garages where the master bedroom windows are not directly over the garage. The garage is bumped out about 4 feet plus basement water. Different builder. In also found another article that lists 25 builders if you're following the Toll Brothers case. Unfortunately, my builder, Richmond American Homes, isn't listed.
Owners of Toll Bros. houses who bought their properties from the original or a subsequent buyer and filed lawsuits alleging that shoddy construction caused water damage are not automatically subjected to mandatory arbitration, a panel of Pennsylvania Superior Court judges ruled Wednesday.
The appellate decision upheld Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas rulings that the owners of 30 houses did not have to submit to arbitration — as required by the original warranty.
In effect, the homeowners are now free to pursue their lawsuits seeking compensation for damages, such as mold, rotting wood, and other water infiltration problems that generally cost more than $100,000 to repair.
“We agree with the trial court that pursuant to the plain language of several portions of the warranty, the warranty did not automatically transfer to a subsequent purchaser,” Judge Mary P. Murray wrote. Judge Deborah A. Kunselman and Senior Judge Dan Pellegrini were also on the panel.
I'll add your link plus quote it, it adds to the shock value of what you're posting. A lot of people will just pass by your reply because it's only a link. I'm going to see if NJ has a similar case and share the link in the FB group for my development as we have people who have water damage at windows, front doors, garages where the master bedroom windows are not directly over the garage. The garage is bumped out about 4 feet plus basement water. Different builder. I'm also found another article that lists 25 builders if you're following the Toll Brothers case. Unfortunately, my builder, Richmond American Homes, isn't listed.
I posted in the FB group for my development, I'm surprised at how many people are posting about various water issues like windows and doors, some basements. I guess I'm the only one with the garage leak. It's due to the cheap caulk they used and/or how they "finished" the area it's coming though which is where it meets a copper flashing.
I think it depends on the local market. In general, from my experience, in the Millennial age range, most like to by new homes with easy upgrade in maintenance; so if you're in an area with a lot of younger (30-40s) house buyers, and you have a well-maintained new toll brothers home, I think you'd do well with them and they would gain value. Of course it also depends on the neighborhood, schools, shopping options, etc. Assuming it checks all the boxes, they should appreciate. Of course, who knows how long the impact of COVID and hopeful rebound will last. You may not have many buyers for a while. I think that people in genera have been wanting more space and less crowding, so that bodes well for SFHs and Townhomes. Of course, once people start getting vaccinated, they may not care as much and start to drift back to Condos. Lots of question marks in this climate.
I posted in the FB group for my development, I'm surprised at how many people are posting about various water issues like windows and doors, some basements. I guess I'm the only one with the garage leak. It's due to the check caulk they used and/or how they "finished" the area it's coming though which is where it meets a copper flashing.
I don't know how much someone should rely on that info. Toll isn't in my market so I can't comment on them specifically, but anyone who builds a lot of houses will have go sideways at some point and end up in litigation. There are some really good production builders in my market and they've all been in litigation previously.
I'm one of the better agents in my market, and I've been sued several times. Doesn't mean I'm not bad agent, but I've been involved in 2000 transactions plus I own a property management company (which is the worst!). The first time I got sued, I had represented the seller in a sale. 6 months after the buyer bought the house a tree root grew through the sewer line causing sewage to back up into the house. The buyer sued his buyers agent, me (the listing agent), and the seller. The second time I got sued was by a buyer who lost a multiple offer situation, but he lived next door to the property that was for sale and really wanted it bad I guess, because he sued to try and get it (he didn't). 3rd time was a tenant we evicted for non-payment (won that one also). 4th time was a tenant wanting her security deposit back even though she didn't pay the last months rent (Settled out of court, because we had taken over the lease and it was a very poorly written lease with vague language that created an issue. The previous PM had written into the lease that the SD couldn't be used for the last months rent. Their intent was that a tenant couldn't just not pay the last months rent and tell them to keep the deposit but the language created an issue.)
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