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Old 07-17-2023, 12:32 PM
 
Location: New England
3,267 posts, read 1,747,333 times
Reputation: 9145

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One water treatment plant can serve a larger area than a neighborhood of cesspools and septic systems. Inspecting sewage treatment plants was my first engineering job in the 70's.
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Old 07-17-2023, 12:47 PM
 
5,986 posts, read 3,727,800 times
Reputation: 17064
Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
I looked at a house in CT over the wkd, and was told by the listing agent, that any property that is sold that has a septic tank must be converted over to the city's sewer system.

I called the town to confirm this, and then asked why. The response I got was, the city's sewer system is safer and more sanitary in the long term. How?
A municipal wastewater treatment plant is FAR more efficient than a septic tank and much safer for the environment. Septic tanks CAN work somewhat adequately if they are adequately sized, adequately installed, on an adequate size lot with adequate soil conditions and if the users don't mistreat the septic system through improper disposal of chemicals/substances in the tank.

A properly designed, constructed, and maintained municipal treatment plant is FAR more efficient and FAR better able to handle misuse that would ruin a septic system in short order.

If you're in a rural area where the population density is rather low, then a municipal treatment plant along with the collection system (sewer lines, lift stations, etc) needed to convey the waste to the plant would be cost prohibitive. In a moderate to high density population area, an efficient wastewater treatment plant is a must.

There is another alternative that is sometimes used for small, fairly dense developments out in rural areas. It's called a "package treatment plant". It's kind of a miniature wastewater treatment plant without all the large aeration tanks, settling tanks, drying beds, and all that. It's compact and affordable and much better than having a large number of septic tanks in a small area.
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Old 07-17-2023, 01:23 PM
 
Location: NC
9,360 posts, read 14,103,620 times
Reputation: 20914
There are several uninformed answers here. First of all the onsite septic system does NOT release raw sewage into the ground. The house waste is allowed to ferment in the tank, which degrades the organic matter and converts it to carbon dioxide, ammonia/nitrates, and water plus a few small molecules. These are then released to the soil in the drainfield where healthy soil microbes further degrade it.

The reason people like sewers instead is that the waste is all taken away and the system rarely gets clogged, as for example when you dump grease, chopped fiberous veggies, or too many hygiene products.

Your septic is easier to clog and tree roots can start to grow into it. Your home grain field can get ruined by driving on it which compacts it. You are forbidden to build on the drain field, and every home needs a good drain field or else the septic can't drain and it backs up and stops working right.

So is the sewer system safer? Yeah, against clogging. Plus you can use a garbage disposal. And now you can put in that patio or park in that reserved space. Plus occasionally septic systems break down and need to be replaced but not for decades.
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Old 07-17-2023, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,541 posts, read 2,674,170 times
Reputation: 13053
An acre is likely not to be enough for a properly functioning septic system to be safe, if every house on an acre lot has septic. It depends on the soil characteristics. Furthermore, one can expect a certain percentage of those systems to be poorly maintained, so you need even more area to cope with those.

It's basic, really. There's no way a $30,000 septic system behind every house in a subdivision of even acreage lots is going to compete for effectiveness at wastewater treatment versus the 100 million dollar municipal wastewater plant with 10 full time expert employees.
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Old 07-17-2023, 02:48 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,375 posts, read 60,561,367 times
Reputation: 60990
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
An acre is likely not to be enough for a properly functioning septic system to be safe, if every house on an acre lot has septic. It depends on the soil characteristics. Furthermore, one can expect a certain percentage of those systems to be poorly maintained, so you need even more area to cope with those.

It's basic, really. There's no way a $30,000 septic system behind every house in a subdivision of even acreage lots is going to compete for effectiveness at wastewater treatment versus the 100 million dollar municipal wastewater plant with 10 full time expert employees.
On an acre you might be able to get two drain fields (depending on local soil conditions). When that second one goes bad now what do you do?

One very high end subdivision here is facing that right now, many of the houses are on their second system and the lots aren't suitable for a third one.

Ironically the residents have fought tooth and nail to keep central sewer out in the thirty years since the subdivision was built. Now they're demanding "something be done". The only solution is central sewer, which they still oppose.

The two major shopping centers that form the heart of the subdivision smell really ripe on hot days, there are regular overflows at both of them.

Here were the first shots in the war:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-620e6a10f5f5/
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Old 07-17-2023, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,541 posts, read 2,674,170 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
On an acre you might be able to get two drain fields (depending on local soil conditions). When that second one goes bad now what do you do?

One very high end subdivision here is facing that right now, many of the houses are on their second system and the lots aren't suitable for a third one.

Ironically the residents have fought tooth and nail to keep central sewer out in the thirty years since the subdivision was built. Now they're demanding "something be done". The only solution is central sewer, which they still oppose.

The two major shopping centers that form the heart of the subdivision smell really ripe on hot days, there are regular overflows at both of them.

Here were the first shots in the war:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-620e6a10f5f5/
So I guess they want the city to modify the laws of physics, biology and civil engineering? Brilliant.
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:09 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,292 posts, read 18,824,628 times
Reputation: 75270
Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Thanks all.

I was not aware this could be a hazard. Cholera - really?

The lot of this particular house is just over an acre.

My first thought is that someone from the local govt is in bed with a company or two who do the work. I hate thinking that way, but there is so much damn corruption, it's hard not to.

I am not buying the house, but I was curious anyway. Always good to learn something. Apparently, the cost to do this is around 20k. Yikes. It was supposedly built into the asking price, so the buyer will not ultimately be responsible for the cost. I have my doubts if that will really work out for whoever buys the house; as I am not a potential buyer, I have not done any comps, but based on the little bit that I have been keeping my eye on certain areas, the asking price seems inline with FMV.

Cheers.
It isn't just the acreage, its the soils that exist on that acreage. Which is why percolation tests are done before a septic system is designed for a parcel. Not all soils will be compatible with a septic system. Someone who has a septic system needs to be mindful what they pour down their house drains. Many chemicals will damage or kill off the microbe community that keeps a septic system functional. If managed properly, all that's going into a septic system is biodegradable by those microorganisms. Besides, solids don't just get poured into the ground. They stay in a septic tank which needs to be pumped out periodically. How often depends on multiple factors. Then liquids flow off the top of the septic tank contents into a leach field. The surrounding soils can filter what's left so it doesn't foul the water table or surrounding water bodies. Obviously, there are limits to how many septic systems can "fit" in any area of soil.
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,072,247 times
Reputation: 18579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northrick View Post
A properly designed and functioning system doesn't have an adverse impact on the environment. However, they need adequate room to function and aren't suitable for small lots if everyone has one.


I suspect the bigger driver of the requirement to hook up is to increase revenue into the city water/waste water system.

Ding ding ding we have a winner here!
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Old 07-17-2023, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Anchorage
2,040 posts, read 1,659,151 times
Reputation: 5358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
A municipal wastewater treatment plant is FAR more efficient than a septic tank and much safer for the environment. Septic tanks CAN work somewhat adequately if they are adequately sized, adequately installed, on an adequate size lot with adequate soil conditions and if the users don't mistreat the septic system through improper disposal of chemicals/substances in the tank.

A properly designed, constructed, and maintained municipal treatment plant is FAR more efficient and FAR better able to handle misuse that would ruin a septic system in short order.

A lot of cities, particularly older ones, have combined sewer systems. That means rainwater and sanitary sewage (from your toilet) go into the same pipes headed to the wastewater treatment plant. In dry or light rain conditions, the WW plant can keep up with the inflow to the plant. But in heavy rains the plant can't keep up and some of the raw untreated sewage bypasses the plant and goes straight into a river or lake. This is known as a "combined sewer overflow."


As you might guess, this ain't good. The EPA has been cracking down for decades on cities where this occurs. There are a few fixes but none are cheap. The OP didn't say what city, but being in CT it is quite possible that the city is under some sort of EPA mandate to reduce their CSOs. That takes money and forcing a house to hook up and pay a monthly fee is one way to get that money.
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Old 07-17-2023, 04:47 PM
 
4,843 posts, read 3,272,992 times
Reputation: 9456
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
An acre is likely not to be enough for a properly functioning septic system to be safe, if every house on an acre lot has septic. It depends on the soil characteristics. Furthermore, one can expect a certain percentage of those systems to be poorly maintained, so you need even more area to cope with those.

It's basic, really. There's no way a $30,000 septic system behind every house in a subdivision of even acreage lots is going to compete for effectiveness at wastewater treatment versus the 100 million dollar municipal wastewater plant with 10 full time expert employees.

Without bothering look up actual statistics, there are probably hundreds of developments all over the country with septic systems on the individual lots. Several years ago, Texas (or at least some counties) changed the minimum lot size for a septic from 1/2 acre to a full acre.



Clearly a city sewer is more 'efficient' than a neighborhood full of septic systems, but some pretty smart folks have decided that an acre is quite enough for a properly designed system.
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