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Intriguing...again thx for your thoughts h886...I guess I never actually really thought of it or saw it, quite that way as you had described, myself
ETA: Agreed with other posters...you are very wise!
Quote:
Originally Posted by h886
You can certainly do both together. Sometimes there is strong attraction from both parties right from the start. If conditions are right and both parties are eager, go for it. My concern with SG is that he's approaching this girl (who he doesn't know at all--not even her name) too aggressively and that it's likely to be a turn-off. A girl wants to feel there's some connection there, even a basic one. If you ask her out before even knowing her name, she knows she's just a pretty piece of meat in your mind.
My argument is merely that a girl either sees potential there, or she doesn't. If there is no potential there in her mind, then it doesn't matter what the guy does (tries for a romance, tries friends only, tries friends then romance) because she's not interested in what he has to offer. There is no "danger of falling into the friend zone" because it has nothing at all to do with what the guy wants or does. Whether a relationship will ever happen under any circumstances (assuming the guy is eager and willing) has only to do with whether the girl wants him or not. Girls fall in love with their friends all the time. The guy who they didn't fall in love with just doesn't like to admit that.
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 02-23-2011 at 06:07 PM..
Reason: Adds
Thx for the fascinating info there, h886...you bring up some excellent points
Nor do I disagree with you, that girls who are friends with guys, cannot come to like them (the guy friends) romantically, b/c that's exactly what happened to me, in last 2 most recent relationships. But isn't that contingent on the girl herself wanting more though? (i.e., may not necessarily work, the other way around, since as you said if a guy has no romantic interest in a guy friend, it's gonna be a no-go regardless?)
Again, interesting...
My responses were meant to be gender neutral as it certainly can happen the other way around (I've been the shoulder to cry on for a fair number of female friends over the years who liked a male friend that didn't return their affections.) I merely used the genders I did here to stay relevant to the thread.
But why not do "boyfriend first, then friend" (meant as, both together)? That way, no danger of falling into the friend zone at all, right? At least in theory?
Why not do boyfriend first? IMHO, I find this kind of thinking to be such a turn off. I know we're all afraid of rejection to some degree and that's normal. Who likes to be rejected, right? But my reasons for avoiding boyfriend first is because I would like to get to know the person before even deciding to move on to the next level. There are times were if I were to be interested in another guy, I would have dated him right off the bat if he liked me. I decided to hold that thought and observe him from far. Physical attraction may come first, but psychological attraction is what keeps me going. Typical answer but it is very true in many cases. It works and I have dodge so many bullets.
If the guy is so worry about friend zone, I will question what's his definition and worldview of friend zone. Many times the world is NOT black and white. I don't know why but friendship is so important to me. It really helps me to know who he is and what I am getting myself into. Sometimes through friendship, psychological attraction becomes stronger. I learn to look at the other person as a person, not as someone who I will use to achieve my own desires. Desires are not bad itself, but when you are using others to achieve those desires, I would worry. I forgot to say that I am definitely NOT going to rush the relationship. I hate doing that. It ruins everything. A part of me hears commitment issue when I rush into a relationship.
My dear treasured friend, beachmel...I do believe that SG may be worried about potentially being "friend-zoned", is all Not that he doesn't want to be a friend, in addition to b/f material, to her But if she sees him only as a "friend", then how can she ever be able to like him, in a romantic manner?
Hon, I know that the "friend-zone" seems like the black hole to some of you, but it isn't! The "friend-zone" can be the PERFECT place! As my wise and experienced friends, "h" and Kobber have tried to explain, it's a wonderful launching pad for what might be an incredible long-term relationship! Most relationships end when the other person looks up one day and says, "OMG! I don't even KNOW you....much less LIKE you!" Many, many love relationships occur between friends, years later! Two people are great friends....they stay friends in spite of dating others...she or he (usually she) isn't sexually attracted the her friend.......but, after they've both experienced repeated failed relationships, they quite often come together. It doesn't just happen in the movies you know.
In this sense...."He/she looks up one day and realizes....OMG, I know all of their flaws and I LOVE those things...I can LIVE with those flaws. I've been looking for something that's been right in front of my face the whole time!" Just remember, if you sabotage a relationship with someone, because she put you in the "friend-zone", you not only are doomed to lose that friendship, the possibility of a love-relationship, AND the possibility of her fixing you up with someone she thinks is PERFECT for you!
Hon, I know that the "friend-zone" seems like the black hole to some of you, but it isn't! The "friend-zone" can be the PERFECT place! As my wise and experienced friends, "h" and Kobber have tried to explain, it's a wonderful launching pad for what might be an incredible long-term relationship! Most relationships end when the other person looks up one day and says, "OMG! I don't even KNOW you....much less LIKE you!" Many, many love relationships occur between friends, years later! Two people are great friends....they stay friends in spite of dating others...she or he (usually she) isn't sexually attracted the her friend.......but, after they've both experienced repeated failed relationships, they quite often come together. It doesn't just happen in the movies you know.
In this sense...."He/she looks up one day and realizes....OMG, I know all of their flaws and I LOVE those things...I can LIVE with those flaws. I've been looking for something that's been right in front of my face the whole time!" Just remember, if you sabotage a relationship with someone, because she put you in the "friend-zone", you not only are doomed to lose that friendship, the possibility of a love-relationship, AND the possibility of her fixing you up with someone she thinks is PERFECT for you!
Lol, I agree with you, my friend! Please see post #342 My own previous/most recent 2 relationships, started out first as friends, with the girls asking *me* for more. I just was skeptical that it could effectively work in reverse (i.e., guy asking gal, for more than friends).
But you and h886 explained it very well, so that I understand the mechanics behind it, a lot better than I did before. Again thx
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 02-23-2011 at 07:19 PM..
Reason: Corrected typo
Why not do boyfriend first? IMHO, I find this kind of thinking to be such a turn off. I know we're all afraid of rejection to some degree and that's normal. Who likes to be rejected, right? But my reasons for avoiding boyfriend first is because I would like to get to know the person before even deciding to move on to the next level. There are times were if I were to be interested in another guy, I would have dated him right off the bat if he liked me. I decided to hold that thought and observe him from far. Physical attraction may come first, but psychological attraction is what keeps me going. Typical answer but it is very true in many cases. It works and I have dodge so many bullets.
If the guy is so worry about friend zone, I will question what's his definition and worldview of friend zone. Many times the world is NOT black and white. I don't know why but friendship is so important to me. It really helps me to know who he is and what I am getting myself into. Sometimes through friendship, psychological attraction becomes stronger. I learn to look at the other person as a person, not as someone who I will use to achieve my own desires. Desires are not bad itself, but when you are using others to achieve those desires, I would worry. I forgot to say that I am definitely NOT going to rush the relationship. I hate doing that. It ruins everything. A part of me hears commitment issue when I rush into a relationship.
Some excellent points Anberlin Remember though, love is not all about just physical desire...it's also about wanting to hold someone close, in a full embrace, be kind, loving, and gentle, to them...make them laugh...make them happy...hold their hand, in yours. To commit your heart in tenderness and sweet affection, to theirs.
I would wager that there may be a great deal of overlap regarding feelings of affection for someone, between love and friendship
ETA: I don't disagree with your statement "Sometimes through friendship, psychological attraction becomes stronger" -- the problem becomes though, if one party in the friendship, doesn't feel the same as the other, regarding romance That kind of rejection, can potentially really hurt, deeply...as in one person confessing that they care about them as more than friends, but get rejected and the other person gets weirded out, and no longer wants to be friends. That is the inherent risk one takes, with being friends first. (Also again I'm not disagreeing with what h886 and beachmel had mentioned, earlier.)
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 02-23-2011 at 07:17 PM..
Reason: Adds
Here's the thing about the friend-zone. Once the girl that friend-zoned you sees you with another girl, if the friend-zone girl has any feelings of attraction to you whatsoever, you will no longer be in her friend-zone, she will be forced to see you for who you are, a man. So talk to alot of different girls, thats what the game is all about, women are possesive and their attraction feeds off of the jealous thought of another woman having you. Jealousy is an emotion women have a very hard time dealing with, use that to your advantage.
As for pick-up lines and pre-packaged conversations, don't use that crap, it will sound exactly like what it is, contrived. You are your own person, so do what ever feels the most natural to you, never try to mimmick someone else's style and approach because everybody's natural swagger is as unique as their fingerprint. Thats the whole cliche "be yourself" thing.
What works for me, is I talk to a woman like I already know them. Like they're someone I've already known for a long time, there's no pressure to setup a date or even get a number. I joke around with them in a lighthearted way(they way you would joke around with an old friend). I let it flow naturally, most of the time I do end up with their number, and many times they've actually asked me out for brunch or coffee. I don't act too eager, I make it seem like I have a busy schedule, even if I don't, and I never "linger".
But at the end of the day I am still a man, and as a man the most important thing is to get over your natural fear of rejection, because most of the time it falls squarely on a man's shoulders to put his ego on the line, and ask the critical questions. Come to terms with the fact that women will tell you "no" alot, get used to it, that's what they're programmed to do. Don't let it break your stride, alot of the time they're just testing you, to see how you react to not getting your way. The other day I called this girl I just met to have lunch with me, but I wasn't serious, I was just trying to hear her say "no", get my daily dose of rejection, to keep me strong, so when she said yes, I was like "damn"(in my mind of course) and had to reschedule. Don't get me wrong, I'm successful with women on a regualr basis, but thats only because I'm not afriad to fail, and to them that is the sexiest attribute a man can have. Don't be afraid of failure, embrace it, because you are always denied what you seek, so seek rejection.
Last edited by killakoolaide; 02-23-2011 at 08:07 PM..
Here's the thing about the friend-zone. Once the girl that friend-zoned you sees you with another girl, if the friend-zone girl has any feelings of attraction to you whatsoever, you will no longer be in her friend-zone, she will be forced to see you for who you are, a man. So talk to alot of different girls, thats what the game is all about, women are possesive and their attraction feeds off of the jealous thought of another woman having you. Jealousy is an emotion women have a very hard time dealing with, use that to your advantage.
Exactly. The main issue is when you get to a certain age you start to realize these things, at least by the time you graduate high school. By then you realize nothing is guaranteed just because your good friends with that girls. But some men would rather be in the friend zone than have no female friends at all, sad.
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Not that he doesn't want to be a friend, in addition to b/f material, to her 
That kind of rejection, can potentially really hurt, deeply...as in one person confessing that they care about them as more than friends, but get rejected and the other person gets weirded out, and no longer wants to be friends. That is the inherent risk one takes, with being friends first. (Also again I'm not disagreeing with what h886 and beachmel had mentioned, earlier.)
