Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jean M. Aul wrote the well-researched book "Clan of the Cave Bear," and several sequels, centering around a woman named Ayla who lived in stone age times, who lived with both Neanderthals and our ancestors who gave us almost all of our DNA, ancient Homo sapiens.
Her depiction of ancient Homo sapiens differs quite a bit from the traditional view of a male dominated, bash-your-girlfirend-over-the-head-with-a-club-and-drag-her-off-to-your-cave-for-your-wedding society.
In Ayla's world, men and women often had equal ruling power. Group leaders were most often men, but sometimes women, and several groups had two leaders, one male and one female.
Physical assaults such as punching were viewed as great crimes, regardless of who started it. Insults and yelling were quite acceptable, but physical attacks were, for most groups, unacceptable. Warfare was a foreign concept. The closest thing to it was occasional raids to drive off, rather than kill, other groups, and the occasional mentally unbalanced group leader. Both of these situations were rare. Visitors and foreigners were usually welcomed. (not Neanderthals so much...but forget them for now)
Societies were highly promiscuous, with women often bedding two men at once, but the reverse seldom happening. There was something that might be called a form of marriage...they called it finding a mate, but that only had to do with who raised offspring. Mated pairs could still sleep with other people. At times, certainly not in most cases, one or both partners of a mated pair would become jealous when their partner slept with someone else, and so they would only have sex with eachother. Mated pairs nearly always chose one another, or at least consented to arranged marriages...very, very few forced marriages.
Very few people knew babies came from sex. Most women were happy to have children. Men were happy to have children as well. Women with children were more desirable to men than those without them.
So basically, say thirty people from Citi-Data get together. We support, compete with, and assist one another. We live in hide and mammoth-bone tents, and hunt ice age animals, and we have wanton, unprotected sex with eachother whenever we feel like it...except in rare cases when it would make our mated partner too jealous. We have lots and lots of unplanned pregnancies, and nobody sees this as a negative. They're raised about 70% by our group, and 30% by ourselves and our mated partner.
Now, we are living quite fast here. Keep in mind that our life expectancy has dramatically increased during modern times, so to put things in perspective, plan on dying at 35.
These people lived long ago, but they were our ancestors, so they may have thought like us...
...so, would anyone want to live like this?
Jean M. Aul wrote the well-researched book "Clan of the Cave Bear," and several sequels, centering around a woman named Ayla who lived in stone age times, who lived with both Neanderthals and our ancestors who gave us almost all of our DNA, ancient Homo sapiens.
Her depiction of ancient Homo sapiens differs quite a bit from the traditional view of a male dominated, bash-your-girlfirend-over-the-head-with-a-club-and-drag-her-off-to-your-cave-for-your-wedding society.
In Ayla's world, men and women often had equal ruling power. Group leaders were most often men, but sometimes women, and several groups had two leaders, one male and one female.
Physical assaults such as punching were viewed as great crimes, regardless of who started it. Insults and yelling were quite acceptable, but physical attacks were, for most groups, unacceptable.
Societies were highly promiscuous, with women often bedding two men at once, but the reverse seldom happening. There was something that might be called a form of marriage...they called it finding a mate, but that only had to do with who raised offspring. Mated pairs could still sleep with other people. At times, certainly not in most cases, one or both partners of a mated pair would become jealous when their partner slept with someone else, and so they would only have sex with eachother. Mated pairs nearly always chose one another, or at least consented to arranged marriages...very, very few forced marriages.
Very few people knew babies came from sex. Most women were happy to have children. Men were happy to have children as well. Women with children were more desirable to men than those without them.
So basically, say everybody on Citi-Data gets together. We support, compete with, and assist one another. We live in hide and mammoth-bone tents, and hunt ice age animals, and we have wanton, unprotected sex with eachother whenever we feel like it...except in rare cases when it would make our mated partner too jealous. We have lots and lots of unplanned pregnancies, and nobody sees this as a negative.
Now, we are living quite fast here. Keep in mind that our life expectancy has dramatically increased during modern times, so to put things in perspective, plan on dying at 35.
These people lived long ago, but they were our ancestors, so they may have thought like us...
...so, would anyone want to live like this?
The bold part is your problem and why this likely never happened.
Something kind of like this happened in 1790. If you're familiar with the story of the Mutiny on The Bounty, about surviving mutineers of the British ship The Bounty. They landed on a Polynesian island called Pitcairn Island.
There were 8 mutineers at first, with 6 Polynesian men and 12 Tahitian women. It did not end so well.
This is all I have time to link to now, but it is fascinating:
I love this series of books though I heard the latest one sucked so I skipped it.
I think it could have happened but I wouldn't want to live like that today.
I liked her first and second books much (Clan of the Cave Bear an The Valley of Horses). Now, in The Valley of Horses, romanticparts were pretty much quarantined to indivudual chapters, so I could skip the chapter. In the later books though, it was all over the place, so it was harder to skip without missing important parts. Jondular is a very good man, an honerable and kind man. Nevertheless, I'd prefer it if he died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
Something kind of like this happened in 1790. If you're familiar with the story of the Mutiny on The Bounty, about surviving mutineers of the British ship The Bounty. They landed on a Polynesian island called Pitcairn Island.
There were 8 mutineers at first, with 6 Polynesian men and 12 Tahitian women. It did not end so well.
This is all I have time to link to now, but it is fascinating:
Well, I didn't say this in the beginning thread, but the group members were treated as equals in many ways in Aul's books, so the Polynesian men being treated like slaves wouldn't have been an issue. Also, in the books, every member of the group owned at least some land they and their family could live on.
Regarding jealousy, in a small group, that would be a problem. Maybe monogamous marriage was enacted in ancient times to help get rid of that...or maybe jealousy might have been avoided through a more relaxed, promiscuous social system. I don't know how most people would think in these matter.
Another difference between the Aul's depicted people and the mutineers and company that I didn't go into at all, was that, in the books, if someone in a group didn't get along with the others, he or she could leave and try to fit in with another group.
The bold part is your problem and why this likely never happened.
I've heard good reviews about her first book, Clan of the Cave Bear. Parts of it seem like they came from a fantasy novel, but she did do a lot of research, and learned how live in the wilderness. I haven't seen many reviews on the others, and I've started to wonder if Jean...how much of this was probable...and how much could you be just making up because romance novels sell well?
I don't think it's SO farfetched, though probably nothing like Auel envisioned it. Was just seeing stats that at one time the human race might have been down to less than 40 living mating pairs of humans (not including children and old folks). This was back around 70,000 BC. Other stats put it at maybe 1,000 mating pairs. So... think about how precarious existence may have seemed at that time - a very peaceful and cooperative society would have been vital to the survival of the species. There would be no room for dominance games or fighting over resources or violence. Cooperation and harmony would have been vital for survival. Humans have the capacity for logic, which can override instincts like territorial nature and sexual competition, and that was probably what saved us as a species.
Would I want to live that way? Like a hippie commune? Not so much. I'm a bit of a loner and like my space. But if it was all I had ever known or my life depended upon it... I'd be rethinking my stance.
I don't think it's SO farfetched, though probably nothing like Auel envisioned it. Was just seeing stats that at one time the human race might have been down to less than 40 living mating pairs of humans (not including children and old folks). This was back around 70,000 BC. Other stats put it at maybe 1,000 mating pairs. So... think about how precarious existence may have seemed at that time - a very peaceful and cooperative society would have been vital to the survival of the species. There would be no room for dominance games or fighting over resources or violence. Cooperation and harmony would have been vital for survival. Humans have the capacity for logic, which can override instincts like territorial nature and sexual competition, and that was probably what saved us as a species.
Would I want to live that way? Like a hippie commune? Not so much. I'm a bit of a loner and like my space. But if it was all I had ever known or my life depended upon it... I'd be rethinking my stance.
That's another thing...we're probably about the most adaptable, not microscopic beings on Earth, and we learn a lot of what we know. How many people living in cities would do well suddenly living the lifestyle of an Eskimo living a century ago? One tribe (not Eskimos) living in a mountainous region get their babies to remain very still and quiet by wrapping them tightly and responding to every movement. It's cold where they live, so they sleep close to fires, so this way their children don't roll or crawl too close to the fires. Most ideas about baby personalities do not include quiet and still. Whatever societal practices worked best, if they discovered they worked best, people could have gotten used to them.
I'm not getting into a mammoth-bone tent with some of the guys on C-D, let alone having wanton sex with them. Pick a different crowd, then, yeah.
In matriarchal societies, polyandry was the norm. Still is, in the few matriarchal societies still around.
I think there are people who think all differences between men and women are culturally based, and I think they are wrong...because I don't see a guy, if he had the option, getting pregnant and giving birth even once, even to save humanity from extinction, much less frequently in an unplanned manner. There'd be lots of support though, with such a close knit society.
I don't like conforming to customs, but taking into account that as a guy, there would be no becomming pregnant, the support might make up for the necessary conforming to fit in. It would definitely be doable if necessary for survival.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Pick a different crowd, then, yeah.
