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I don't think its the second that matters more than HOW and WHO is staring, that makes it more creepy than not. Stares like you've never seen a woman before and those of appreciating beauty give off different vibes. Being attractive also helps make you less creepy than someone who is not.
BTW it's a flatter if the guy is attractive, but if his stare gets busy with every cute girl he walks pass that's desperate. Desperate is creepy, so is your habit... Have some self discipline and stop being obsessed. Nobody wants to date a guy who keeps staring at other women.
Why do you feel you need to impose a limit in the first place?
What can't be taken in with a short glance that needs time given for further inspection?
What is "admiring a women's beauty" in your words?
Right or wrong these are critical answers when establishing intent. Nobody knows your reasons because you haven't defined them, only given broad strokes.
Last edited by rego00123; 06-14-2014 at 02:37 PM..
Why do you feel you need to impose a limit in the first place?
What can't be taken in with a short glance that needs time given for further inspection?
What is "admiring a women's beauty" in your words?
Right or wrong these are critical answers when establishing intent. Nobody knows your reasons because you haven't defined them, only given broad strokes.
What I really want to do is buy magazines and stare at the pictures. I don't want to stare at women in the real world. But I'm worried that staring at magazines and TV gets me in bad habits of checking out women too obviously in public.
But if I observe a beautiful woman in the real world I do want to be able to take one or two seconds to observe her beauty and let it sink in a moment before looking away. My brain doesn't work fast enough for 1/2 second to be enough to register what I see. 1-2 seconds isn't very long. So I don't think that's excessive.
I've said if it's unreasonable for someone to be bothered by being looked at for less than 3 full seconds, then I shouldn't be expected to predict ahead of time who will or will not be bothered, but should stop if I see that they are bothered.
That's if it's unreasonable, though. Naturally, the people who have said here that it's too much do not think it's unreasonable for a person to be bothered by it. That would mean you should expect it will bother others. Again, I think you are seeking answers you then cast aside, only holding out for answers that match your preexisting notion of what is normal and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
I think people on this thread have a misconception of what I'm doing.
Maybe so. To me, "checking them out" is pretty self-explanatory. Your eyes are lingering south from their face to their legs or just a bit north of there, if only for three seconds, yes? Plain and simple: there are plenty of women out there who don't like it.
Also, bear in mind that just because a woman does not object to being looked at in this way doesn't mean they're not uncomfortable. I imagine that some have that type of personality where they feel uncomfortable but won't show it or say anything - may even say "Ehh, guys are gonna look, I don't mind" when they actually do. Therefore, you would do well to get a firm grasp of your own feelings on the issue, which is to say maybe you don't really care if they are uncomfortable - you just don't want them objecting. You spoke of traditions amongst men earlier. This is certainly a tradition in our culture, and most around the world actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
You don't know what it's like to have never dated. I doubt she was more than a little uncomfortable. She shouldn't have had her shirt falling off her shoulder practically in a public library computer lab anyways
What does your history in dating have to do with any of this? I thought it was about the woman being looked at - whether she's uncomfortable/offended by it.
Now I must say one thing and I know not everyone will agree. But it is true that a woman forfeits her right to object to a stranger checking them out when they wear revealing clothing in public. That's a principle, at least, and I know defining what is "too revealing" would be a subjective judgment call, but I do agree that certain attire attracts certain looks. It just does.
But it's a two-way street. You can still look away. If not, something's wrong in both parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
What I really want to do is buy magazines and stare at the pictures. I don't want to stare at women in the real world. But I'm worried that staring at magazines and TV gets me in bad habits of checking out women too obviously in public.
Well of course it does, because you are training your mind to do that. Both the staring/checking out strange women and the dulling of that sense that tells you to be discreet.
Children are lovely and interesting creatures as well. How long do you stare at them to "admire their beauty"? You could probably get away with much longer than 3 seconds since they kids are less likely to notice.
Another post that sounds dumb. I certainly have kept my gaze on men, women, and children for 1-2 seconds to observe what they are doing. If you say you haven't, then you are either very unusual or you are lying.
That's if it's unreasonable, though. Naturally, the people who have said here that it's too much do not think it's unreasonable for a person to be bothered by it. That would mean you should expect it will bother others. Again, I think you are seeking answers you then cast aside, only holding out for answers that match your preexisting notion of what is normal and reasonable.
Maybe so. To me, "checking them out" is pretty self-explanatory. Your eyes are lingering south from their face to their legs or just a bit north of there, if only for three seconds, yes? Plain and simple: there are plenty of women out there who don't like it.
Also, bear in mind that just because a woman does not object to being looked at in this way doesn't mean they're not uncomfortable. I imagine that some have that type of personality where they feel uncomfortable but won't show it or say anything - may even say "Ehh, guys are gonna look, I don't mind" when they actually do. Therefore, you would do well to get a firm grasp of your own feelings on the issue, which is to say maybe you don't really care if they are uncomfortable - you just don't want them objecting. You spoke of traditions amongst men earlier. This is certainly a tradition in our culture, and most around the world actually.
What does your history in dating have to do with any of this? I thought it was about the woman being looked at - whether she's uncomfortable/offended by it.
Now I must say one thing and I know not everyone will agree. But it is true that a woman forfeits her right to object to a stranger checking them out when they wear revealing clothing in public. That's a principle, at least, and I know defining what is "too revealing" would be a subjective judgment call, but I do agree that certain attire attracts certain looks. It just does.
But it's a two-way street. You can still look away. If not, something's wrong in both parties.
Well of course it does, because you are training your mind to do that. Both the staring/checking out strange women and the dulling of that sense that tells you to be discreet.
I DID LOOK AWAY when I noticed her cover up her shoulder and look displeased. And yes, the ONLY reason her collar was so far below her shoulder that you could see her underarm was to attract male attention. She just didn't want mine. Now I'm not blaming her for me looking, but the bottom line is you can't always get what you want, and she was not harmed in any way by me looking, so I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Sorry, zentropa and Djuna.
Some posts have said the three second rule is reasonable, so people being overly bothered by my looking at them once for 1-2 seconds is unreasonable. They have every right to be offended, but I don't have the duty to avoid offending them in such a small way. So, as long as I look away as soon as I notice they are offended regardless of whether the 3 seconds is up yet, I think I'm in the right.
Another post that sounds dumb. I certainly have kept my gaze on men, women, and children for 1-2 seconds to observe what they are doing. If you say you haven't, then you are either very unusual or you are lying.
But that is not what this post is about. It is about staring, not observing. Yes? Why do you stare at women and is it for a different reason than you stare at men or children? What do you get out of it?
If I can't stare at pictures of women on TV and in magazines, then I lose my sexuality. Because there's no way I can date. I'm in my 30s with ZERO dating experience, and I'm much too scared to talk to and meet women. I think it's highly unreasonable for people to tell me it's bad for me to stare at pictures of women. Imagine if someone said you can never have sex, or date, or cuddle and kiss again. Well that's what people are telling me by telling me I shouldn't look at magazines. Because I already can't have any of the above.
Put yourself in my shoes for a moment and have empathy. Yes, zentropa, that means you.
But that is not what this post is about. It is about staring, not observing. Yes? Why do you stare at women and is it for a different reason than you stare at men or children? What do you get out of it?
I don't stare at women. What I get out of enjoying beauty for 1-2 seconds is a euphoric feeling that nothing else really gives me.
See also my above post.
I DID LOOK AWAY when I noticed her cover up her shoulder and look displeased.
Naturally, I meant before that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
And yes, the ONLY reason her collar was so far below her shoulder that you could see her underarm was to attract male attention. She just didn't want mine.
Actually, I wouldn't take it personally because some women don't really want attention - they just think certain looks are "good fashion", believe it or not. But either way, they need to know certain attire will attract certain looks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
Now I'm not blaming her for me looking, but the bottom line is you can't always get what you want, and she was not harmed in any way by me looking, so I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Sorry, zentropa and Djuna.
I don't think anyone's wanting you to drown in excruciating guilt, Davros, just that you started this thread as if you really truly wanted to avoid making women uncomfortable. But now we're not so sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
Some posts have said the three second rule is reasonable, so people being overly bothered by my looking at them once for 1-2 seconds is unreasonable. They have every right to be offended, but I don't have the duty to avoid offending them in such a small way. So, as long as I look away as soon as I notice they are offended regardless of whether the 3 seconds is up yet, I think I'm in the right.
So you're going to essentially ignore everyone else's opinion... because they are not in agreement with yours. That is all I'm seeing. You are certainly at liberty to live however you wish. But I think you're skating with a bias here and you know it.
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