When You Like Yourself... But Find Dating Difficult

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Faith2187

Also I want to add that I have a somewhat interesting personality as well. I'm spiritual and very self aware and often offer unique perspectives and philosophies that differ significantly from the majority of the women I interact with in my age range. I also am constantly told I look nothing like my personality-meaning people expect me to be one way then meet me and walk away with completely different ideas about me. Im shy and introspective and Im kind and open minded. Physically since as early as I can remember ive always gotten compliments on my looks from boys, men, women, etc. Im used to people stopping and staring when I walk in the room, or people being extremely surprised when they discover I haven't had sex with many people. I'm used to people assuming that Im snobby, stuck up, etc or weird and uptight. In other words people often either judge me based on what they think based on how I look or on minimal words that are spoken by me, because Im shy and quiet. When they do get to know me I'm used to people telling me I'm different, or that I seem sheltered, or that I have no filter, and the list goes on. Even then I've never let a man truly truly get to know all that is inside of me and most eventually either grow sick of me not letting them in or my physical package and/or unique personality grows old and loses its fascination and the guy ends up getting on me about about those very things and when things end they're right back dating the women that make up a large representation of liberated women in their twenties.

I don't like dating because for me the beginning stages cause me anxiety and tons of stress and because I often spend so much time having to break barriers of misconceptions about me and introduce the components of my personality that I worry might turn the man off and I never get to the safe place where I feel I can show him my true self. If that makes any sense. In any case I use to try to conform to their expectations until I started not to give a f*** and now especially I try not to pigeon hole myself into some "other" category. I think you've put your self into this category and unfortunately I think it's limiting you... We project. Our believes result in our experiences and often unaware of the very ingrained beliefs we have that conflict with our wants we end up validating some of the more awkward circumstances in our lives that we think are a result of XYZ when really they are a result because deep down we believe it to be no matter what we try to tell ourselves we otherwise want...

What I mean is that your personality might be different from a lot of people, as well
as your look, but if you continue to believe that these make you some oddity that men won't be as interested in then you will continue to have experiences like that. There are many people that have different personalities or interesting looks that have no problem dating. I'm not getting on you because I too used to somewhat think of myself as too different from expectations and in the process limited myself without realizing it.

It's great that you are in a good place with yourself and have no qualms about being you and no reason to change because that means you truly love yourself and accept yourself and that type of love you will project outward and should attract men that feel the same about you. While I think that people should continuously evolve and change I respect that your happy where your at. I do think that you most likely make this more complicated than what it needs to be by feeling limited because you don't feel like you fit in with mainstream society idea of the type of women or personality is desirable that you think you are not.

Good luck. I think Rose posts offered great insight.

The first paragraph made me think of a catchy bit of advice: look like the person you are (within reason). Style is a big part of it. Don't get locked into something without knowing whether the right people will like it or not. (The Internet is a great place for finding out.)

Also, I don't know that essence can be changed. Demeanor is more malleable. For men, developing a not-so-abrasive sense of humor helps. For women, at least learning to respond positively to that should help. Oh, heh, re the fake question, I'm editing to note the one thing I thought of: makeup. If the face without it looks much different, that's too fake. It also can send the message of shaky self-esteem or, depending on the accompanying clothing, being "stuck up," I guess. Actually, there's also being fake with clothing (e.g., undergarments), but that seems too far from the gist of this thread.

[Faith2187]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

The first paragraph made me think of a catchy bit of advice: look like the person you are (within reason). Style is a big part of it. Don't get locked into something without knowing whether the right people will like it or not. (The Internet is a great place for finding out.)

Also, I don't know that essence can be changed. Demeanor is more malleable. For men, developing a not-so-abrasive sense of humor helps. For women, at least learning to respond positively to that should help. Oh, heh, re the fake question, I'm editing to note the one thing I thought of: makeup. If the face without it looks much different, that's too fake. It also can send the message of shaky self-esteem or, depending on the accompanying clothing, being "stuck up," I guess. Actually, there's also being fake with clothing (e.g., undergarments), but that seems too far from the gist of this thread.

I look like the person I am to me-I dress, carry myself and reflect it the majority of the time I'm out. However other peoples perception of someone that looks like me is not me. For instance as I said as early as I can remember I was always told I was pretty. Out of my brothers and sisters I was called the pretty one. I was never even considered to be smart or intellectual or anything outside of how I looked. They didn't even give me that opportunity. But my sisters were always considered smart and people took them seriously. I was smart too btw. By the time I got to high school my body had changed and I had big hips, a big butt and a slimmer waist which amongst my male demographic counterpart was immediately seen as indication that I was freaky, or that I had sex a lot despite the fact that I wore conservative clothing and was a virgin and pretty prudish until I turned 17. Still I would men argue with me about being a virgin-they thought I was lying and I even had guys saying that it was impossible for me to have the body I had without having sex. I was asked to be a stripper(don't even ask) or men would consistently make sexual comments to me and think i would be down to f*** because I looked like that type of girl. I could go on and on but you get that part. Finally I am
a black woman and I either run into people that immediately assume I'm from the hood or that I only like hip hop, men with money, and that im high maintenance and stuck on myself or that I seem like I only date white guys and that im stuck up and snobby. Yet I'm not from the hood, my favorite musician is Florence and the machines and I tend to like alternative and pop more than I do rap, I'm shy and slightly introverted which comes off as stuck up, and im actually very friendly and I like black men.

So this is what I meant^^^ with my first paragraph. I can't change my body, my race or my face and the perceptions about me based on these things so it's difficult to try to look differently to represent the person I am. So like I said I often spend more time helping men break their misconceptions about me and often used to feel that because I apparently was so different than people's ideas that if they really got to know me I wouldn't be accepted.

Nowadays I dont even care but there was a time when I did. Too often people put others and themselves into boxes and it really limits opportunities which is why I no longer do what I feel the op is-and immediately cast myself off as an outcast that wont be as desirable and other women that seem overly represented in the media as the typical acting woman(if that makes sense)

[orangeapple]

Originally Posted by rosebyanothername

Sounds like you are over thinking.

Yep, that's one of my quirks. Really though, it is because I do not want to be one of those people who thinks everyone else is the problem, that there are "no good men", etc. I look within myself & at my own behaviors to solve problems in my life.

In fact, it sounds like you have a set of standards which would make it hard for most people to live up to...maybe even yourself. I am sure I certainly would be one of those people who would not "measure up".

They are not standards for others to live up to, but a matter of compatibility in lifestyle and goals.
Someone who has different goals is not lesser, just not compatible.

If you don't like and accept what my beliefs are, move on.

This is one of the main obstacles I am referring to. Among people with similar beliefs/goals, I have different interests and tastes, as they are usually more conservative than me. I am okay with such differences, but I dislike the judgment I end up experiencing. If it stopped at negative opinions, then it would be fine, but people aggressively try to change you through social shaming tactics.

I feel like I am on eggshells with such people, and as I feel okay with myself & have no intention to change anything that is merely a matter of taste (not morals), then I just want to be around people where I can be myself. Sometimes it seems like some people are angry that you are comfortable with yourself (?).

I am glad you feel like you took time to get to a certain point emotionally and it sounds like you are content with yourself in many ways. That's great! When you get to the point where you accept yourself completely and what attributes you have to offer and you do not have to make changes at all just to attract people, you really will have "arrived".

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

The issue is that I am content with myself in many ways, but I don’t think it attracts people. I don’t think it repels them, but I’m not what anyone is seeking. People with similar values/goals are otherwise a lot more conservative than me, and people with similar interests/tastes tend to have moral standards that don’t jive with my own.

Originally Posted by Metaphysique

What is unappealing about being "spiritual, altruistic..."? Is there really a shortage of men who fit similar attributes or characteristics in this department? Though "spiritual" is a bit vague, so it could mean a variety of things.

Being Christian, but not a particularly mainstream denomination, is not appealing to many because it affects many major life decisions. Yes, there is a shortage of men in this department. I think many places of worship have nearly a 2-1 ratio of single women to men.

And what aspects of your personality do you think makes it an acquired taste? Introversion, specific quirks and idiosyncrasies?

Some aspects of introversion, yes, as well as having a more, er, abstract orientation to reality.
It’s hard to explain in words… It’s the kind of thing people cannot put their finger on. I get projected onto a lot… A stranger’s idea of me and a close friend’s will be extremely different, despite my demeanor being the same.
I wouldn’t say I am quirky because I think that’s cutesy stuff most people possess to some degree.
I don’t do or say anything in particular that is odd, it is just the general way about me, the same way a foreigner always seems “off” a bit.

Originally Posted by funymann

I get where you are in life Orangeapple.

You continue being yourself. Please do not change!

I like your 'acquired taste' comment. I was always referred to as a 'sweet tart.' No, not sweet heart... Sweet TART. Yeah, you can reason why. If you had the candy before you know at first you cringe at the taste but eventually the sweet side comes around and I'm tolerable.

Imagine giving a guy a false identity then later saying, "this is really me." That wouldn't be fair.

I'm glad you are happy with yourself. That's a hard hill to climb over for some.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by bebe182

Nothing you've said about yourself sounds unappealing, in fact I think lots of people are attracted to someone who has personality quirks. Have you had romantic relationships in the past?

Yes, I have had a few relationships. So I suppose that shows I can meet people compatible enough to date for at least a year. But in the end, we really were not compatible, and I am glad it did not work out with those individuals. Given they were few and far between, it doesn’t give me much hope though.

Originally Posted by cindersslipper

You simply CANNOT change yourself, no matter how hard you try.

At best you may be able to mature, become more empathetic perhaps, but you can never change your basic makeup.

Having said this, no one in the universe is "perfect". People are people, they will have quirks and foibles and opinions and experiences that have shaped them forever.

Have a look at a crowded room and actually ASSESS to yourself - how many of those ordinary folk are "perfect" and how many have just decided to love themselves the way they are?

The only path to a happy mature relationship is being happy and mature yourself first.

Wishing to change is only indicative of a hearty self dislike which is NEVER attractive to anyone.

In short, you need to fall in love with yourself, first, before you can be a good partner to anyone else.

I certainly agree with this, and it is precisely what I am saying. I think I like myself in a balanced way, without dismissing need for constant maturing/growth. So I am wondering if it is something in the latter area which needs adjustment.

Originally Posted by Faith2187

Also I want to add that I have a somewhat interesting personality as well. I'm spiritual and very self aware and often offer unique perspectives and philosophies that differ significantly from the majority of the women I interact with in my age range. I also am constantly told I look nothing like my personality-meaning people expect me to be one way then meet me and walk away with completely different ideas about me.

I experience this a lot with my appearance also. I like fashion and am tallish and thin, and people sometimes assume I am shallow and vain because of it.

I don’t spend hours getting ready or cake on makeup, so please no one make assumptions there.

Im shy and introspective and Im kind and open minded. Physically since as early as I can remember ive always gotten compliments on my looks from boys, men, women, etc. Im used to people stopping and staring when I walk in the room, or people being extremely surprised when they discover I haven't had sex with many people. I'm used to people assuming that Im snobby, stuck up, etc or weird and uptight. In other words people often either judge me based on what they think based on how I look or on minimal words that are spoken by me, because Im shy and quiet. When they do get to know me I'm used to people telling me I'm different, or that I seem sheltered, or that I have no filter, and the list goes on.

Yes, all of this applies to me also.

Even then I've never let a man truly truly get to know all that is inside of me and most eventually either grow sick of me not letting them in or my physical package and/or unique personality grows old and loses its fascination and the guy ends up getting on me about about those very things and when things end they're right back dating the women that make up a large representation of liberated women in their twenties.

I feel like I have tried to be open with people, but they are simply not interested. I get very self-absorbed men who want a free therapist & ego boost because they are usually on the rebound. They like that I have a compassionate side with depth, but it is all about how it serves their emotional needs (and they are very, very needy). It ends when I start to ask for something in return. In short, I don’t want to be someone’s trophy nor emotional crutch. Once I stopped attracting those needy types by not being available to them, I didn’t start attracting other types though.

Most of the women in my various circles who pair off easily are just very stereotypical types - mumsy personalities, mealy-mouthed, people-pleasers with conversation consisting of gossip, putting on a facade of being harmless and upbeat but really manipulative and complaining. These are the women who date/marry easily. There are women in these circles that I find fascinating, genuine, emotionally mature, with more dynamic energy and frankly, often more beautiful - but they are always single. That sad fact has been striking to me.

I don't like dating because for me the beginning stages cause me anxiety and tons of stress and because I often spend so much time having to break barriers of misconceptions about me and introduce the components of my personality that I worry might turn the man off and I never get to the safe place where I feel I can show him my true self. If that makes any sense.

The only time dating has ever been successful for me is when it happened “unexpectedly” as they say, and I did NONE of the pursuing or initial effort. Someone I was thrown into company with pursued me and I responded naturally. Whenever I have “tried”, it becomes contrived, which is obviously not attractive. It is frustrating to not have a sense of control.

…I try not to pigeon hole myself into some "other" category. I think you've put your self into this category and unfortunately I think it's limiting you... We project. Our believes result in our experiences and often unaware of the very ingrained beliefs we have that conflict with our wants we end up validating some of the more awkward circumstances in our lives that we think are a result of XYZ when really they are a result because deep down we believe it to be no matter what we try to tell ourselves we otherwise want…

What I mean is that your personality might be different from a lot of people, as well
as your look, but if you continue to believe that these make you some oddity that men won't be as interested in then you will continue to have experiences like that. There are many people that have different personalities or interesting looks that have no problem dating. I'm not getting on you because I too used to somewhat think of myself as too different from expectations and in the process limited myself without realizing it.

Yes, it is limiting and I should stop putting myself in the “other” category. I suppose I am just trying to make sense of life events and this seems to be the way to do it. Human nature doesn’t want to accept unfair randomness as an explanation.

I intend to work on this, but like everything, there is not overnight change.

I do think that you most likely make this more complicated than what it needs to be by feeling limited because you don't feel like you fit in with mainstream society idea of the type of women or personality is desirable that you think you are not.

It is difficult to get past that belief when you do not see yourself reflected in others who perhaps have something you would like in life (ie a relationship). I have tried to focus on the few semi-relatable people who seemed to have found the kind of relationship they wanted without sacrificing integrity, but it is so rare.

I read this book not long ago which was basically new-agey stuff that could be used with most any spiritual belief system, and its basic idea is to expect the odds to be beaten, so to speak, as “anything is possible with God”. It’s a nice thought, but it is hard to maintain it in the face of reality around you.

[goodheathen]

I experience this a lot with my appearance also. I like fashion and am
tallish and thin, and people sometimes assume I am shallow and vain because of
it.

At last, while avoiding the one post that specifically pointed toward appearance as the malleable thing to focus on, admission of a problem (minus some other assumptions viewers likely make). That after years of how many different lengthy posts and threads complaining about dating failure? Most people are tuning them out at this point, probably. The forum has a slew of unhappy long-timers who don't seem willing to change anything.

Why not re-make your style into something that accurately reflects your personality and is liked by the men you want and/or are compatible with? (Another possible problem is that's what wanted might not be what's compatible.) Isn't "fashion" supposed to evolve? I am under the impression that religious men prefer a simple, modest, natural look, but of course that could be acceptably blended with fashion, especially if the shape and face/hair are close enough to conventionally attractive.

[orangeapple]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

At last, while avoiding the one post that specifically pointed toward appearance as the malleable thing to focus on, admission of a problem (minus some other assumptions viewers likely make). That after years of how many different lengthy posts and threads complaining about dating failure? Most people are tuning them out at this point, probably. The forum has a slew of unhappy long-timers who don't seem willing to change anything.Q1Q

If you mean your post(s), I normally block them. I viewed this one, but dont count on it for the future.
Someone like you is not the kind of person I like, so I don't value your opinion much.

Why not re-make your style into something that accurately reflects your personality and is liked by the men you want and/or are compatible with? (Another possible problem is that's what wanted might not be what's compatible.) Isn't "fashion" supposed to evolve? I am under the impression that religious men prefer a simple, modest, natural look, but of course that could be acceptably blended with fashion, especially if the shape and face/hair are close enough to conventionally attractive.

It does accurately reflect my personality. I'm arty, creative and imaginative. My style is a bit arty and boho or vintage, but not very avant garde (still mainstream), and it is very ME. I get constant compliments on it, from men and women alike. The men I am compatible with like my style or they would not be compatible with me. I usually find the personalities of men who like extremely natural, plain looks to be unattractive. They often are dull, bland, and uptight. I want to enjoy life, including my clothing.

Simple and plain is not me. It does not reflect my personality, which is not simple nor plain; and I would be VERY unhappy to be that way. Modesty is rather subjective....I don't wear too tight clothing or short dresses or low cut tops. But Im not ever going to be conservative. Still, no one is shocked by me. It is not like I am wearing mini dresses or goth getups to church.

The assumption made is a common one made towards well-groomed, relatively pretty, young women. My mom, who never had any shortage of suitors, had the same assumptions made about her when young and shy. The difference is, she has a more typical female personality overall.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by orangeapple

If you mean your post(s), I normally block them. I viewed this one, but dont count on it for the future.
Someone like you is not the kind of person I like, so I don't value your opinion much.

Truth hurts sometimes and truth is truth, regardless of the source. At least I care enough to make an effort. You're in a tough spot, I know more than you think I do, and I am not the enemy.

It does accurately reflect my personality. I'm arty, creative and imaginative. My style is a bit arty and boho or vintage, but not very avant garde (still mainstream), and it is very ME. I get constant compliments on it, from men and women alike. The men I am compatible with like my style or they would not be compatible with me. I usually find the personalities of men who like extremely natural, plain looks to be unattractive. They often are dull, bland, and uptight. I want to enjoy life, including my clothing.

Simple and plain is not me. It does not reflect my personality, which is not simple nor plain; and I would be VERY unhappy to be that way. Modesty is rather subjective....I don't wear too tight clothing or short dresses or low cut tops. But Im not ever going to be conservative. Still, no one is shocked by me. It is not like I am wearing mini dresses or goth getups to church.

The assumption made is a common one made towards well-groomed, relatively pretty, young women. My mom, who never had any shortage of suitors, had the same assumptions made about her when young and shy. The difference is, she has a more typical female personality overall.

Defensiveness, pride, etc. Bragging about the car while ignoring that it has trouble starting. Given how attached to your look you are, I have to wonder if too much of your self-esteem is tied into that, like you being the arbiter of good taste. No one has perfect taste....

I perceive an attitude of only your current style would suit your personality well. And no. Madonna is a good counter-example (radical change and still her). I actually agree that your style goes well with your personality, but I don't think it is accurate in a positive way upon first impression (and possibly a first impression should exaggerate the positive)....

I've seen you in other threads complain that men you find physically attractive don't seem interested in you (Houston, we have a problem). Those men who compliment you evidently aren't your type. Meanwhile, many people happily have significant others whose style they don’t particularly like, and to insist that Mr. Right do would be “shallow."

While it's true that many attractive young women who make an effort with their style are perceived as vain and shallow, there's a big difference between Paris Hilton and you and there are stylish, attractive women who aren't outgoing and overtly feminine and still don't come across as vain or shallow. It's not something beyond your control like a racial stereotype.

As a guy, I'll tell you that usually traits that guys want to sense right away (from looks or behavior) are things like sexy, friendly, fun, and easy-going. If they're absent, interest probably will be lukewarm at best. If additionally facial expression, body language, tone of voice, etc. are subpar, then it's a bad first impression.

Why don't you think about more and figure out what you are willing to play around with? It could be clothing colors, makeup color, hairstyle, or something else. Maybe strive to look more care-free. Maybe compare the particulars of your style with someone like Taylor Swift, whose seems to do arty and creative well to men she likes.

My only other idea is a workshop on body language and conversational skills, and that might be expensive and fleeting. Okay, there's also relocation to somewhere with more or better men, but I can't recommend that when we're talking needles in a haystack.

I'm not saying my ideas are very likely to lead to Mr. Right, but if you change nothing, it's probably more years of loneliness ahead for you.

[goodheathen]

One more thing, expanding about another point (yeah, even more) I forgot to make.

People rarely give specific, not-so-positive feedback to others about appearance unless asked. I think you should try a website of strangers like Girls Ask Guys about your style. "Based on this, describe my personality." I don't know if you can upload pictures at that one, though. Maybe Reddit? I'm good at feedback, but I'd be shocked if a style critique from me is wanted.

That said, I don't think anyone - even your best pals - would insist you change absolutely nothing about your style. A little experimentation cannot hurt.