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When you make these sweeping statements, are you also talking about your own wife?
Nope. I was talking about my experience living in the USA (my wife is not from the USA) and what others have mentioned around here as well when it comes to dating and all the things expected from men which is not wrong or right. Just things women generally like on a man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia
I think the immediate reciprocation is to smile, say thank you, be gracious, and let him strut a little bit
I also experienced this while living in the USA. Like I said before, it was alright. Not saying it was good or bad, just alright. But when I am in Asia I see more than just a shy smile. Look at SylvianFisher posts. He makes some good points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvianfisher
And, I know that these nice things do happen between married people. What I have been going after here, though, is not the married dynamic, but the dating dynamic as first mentioned in Post #1. I've been trying to stay on-topic with that dynamic as identified there. Within the context of the dating dynamic, when people are talking about chivalry, they are talking only about that unidirectional flow of niceties. We all know of them, I think. I do them.
That single women see chivalry as a dating expectation in light of feminism is its own large discussion. That men become the losers in this, of the friction about chivalry versus feminism, is unfair to men, frankly. But, it's when women state that on a date they are making up for the unilateral courtesies, that it sounds like hogwash to me. I ask the dating women what unilateral courtesies do they provide. They are on the date with the guy, not me, so you'd think they would pour me back in the bottle with fast answers. Nope. Non-answers. Avoidance. They'll find some misstep of mine like a poorly chosen word or a pointed one, and they use it to shift the conversation or write me off. It's all non-answers to me, bottom line.
So, I thank you for taking the time to respond the longer way, but I think I will hold out for a response within the context of dating and, if the courtesies are the holding the door open and the like, it has me thinking it's a date occurring in public which ought to really narrow down the available responses from these dating ladies. (Insert wicked laugh here.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvianfisher
But, marriage and living together is not the issue. I've been talking about a date.
Please don't misunderstand that I am still seeking to hear from a woman who is not married, who has no partner, but is still dating and who does expect chivalry on a date, and... AND... believes that she is either deserving of the imbalance of dating chivalry merely because it's there for the receiving OR she has this vague special points or bonus points system during dating that, in her mind, makes the imbalance acceptable to herself.
That is the woman I'd like to hear from. Someone like her has reared her head in this thread and I know she is not a unicorn. I want to find out how such a woman defends the existence of chivalry on a date other than it's all about her.
Did I mention the word date in any of that description? Geez, I hope so. Because, if you write back and go off on me because I'm not talking about your situation, well I've already had that happen to me tonight.
The door does not open itself, I would open the door if I wanted too, but I wont always be there to open the door for her.
Yes. Because if I'm not with my husband I stand before a closed door and wait until a stranger opens it.
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Please don't misunderstand that I am still seeking to hear from a woman who is not married, who has no partner, but is still dating and who does expect chivalry on a date, and... AND... believes that she is either deserving of the imbalance of dating chivalry merely because it's there for the receiving OR she has this vague special points or bonus points system during dating that, in her mind, makes the imbalance acceptable to herself.
Ok, I'll answer from a "dating perspective".
Yup, I expect "chivalry" on a date. I expect that if a guy asks me out to dinner, that he will pay for said dinner. I expect that on said date, I will be treated as the most important thing in his world at that point in time. If that means pulling out a chair, or taking my coat, that's what it means.
Frankly, I'm not in the least concerned about any perceived "imbalance" in it all, and I would not want to be with someone who thought of it that way.
Yes, I understand that some people take advantage of these things. I'm not one of them, and I'm far too old and experienced to "feel bad" for guys who moan about it. Fact is, what this guy puts out in terms of "chivalry" he gets back in spades from me, if the match is right. Risk/reward.
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I've passed out from hunger outside the door to a restaurant before.
So you're the one. Someone may have said that some guy kicked you out of the doorway, but that's a lie. I yanked the door open and you sort of rolled when it banged in to you
Frankly, I'm not in the least concerned about any perceived "imbalance" in it all.
The beneficiaries of imbalances rarely are.
I'm not picking on you specifically, you just phrased it in a way that made it easy for me to respond. The fact is, many women feel that way, just that there are many men that don't give a flying f*** about gender contradictions that benefit them.
What sticks for me is hypocrisy on either side. Someone believe that we should celebrate our gender differences, where others believe in a truly parallel society. Personally, I can see why people would believe either way, and I have my own beliefs as well. But silently (or not so silently) reaping the social benefits of one scenario, while lambasting another gender for their benefits in another makes one an ugly person.
Sadly, there are many who don't agree, and justify their beliefs to themselves under a guise of, well...probably too many to name.
So you're the one. Someone may have said that some guy kicked you out of the doorway, but that's a lie. I yanked the door open and you sort of rolled when it banged in to you
Bwahahaha!
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