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I'd like to start off with some context by mentioning that I am a gay man.
For as long as I can remember, my old man always taught me to be chivalrous towards women. And even though I'm gay, this has always stuck with me. Of course, there's nothing in it for me in terms of attraction for obvious reasons, I do it because I like women and for whatever reason I enjoy being especially nice to them.
Now, I've noticed that a lot of my straight male friends, when they do more or less as I do, that is to say, when they are kind to women, it doesn't seem to get them very far. I have one friend who has on numerous occasions asked me how come the guys who treat women badly seem to be more successful, and how come those who show kindness don't. I said to him perhaps he should only show kindness to women who appreciate it.
And on the other side, if you will, I've had women say to me that men should certainly show kindness but they should not expect anything in return, as women do not owe men anything. I mentioned that if women don't owe men anything then she's in no position to expect anything from them. What I mean is that she shouldn't say that men should do things for women.
As for me, I think it's nice when men do things for women, and, while they should not demand anything in return, I also think it's wrong for women to expect nice things.
I don't have a specific question, I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion. if you have any questions, shoot away.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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This again. Basic kindness isn't supposed to get your anywhere, it is just being decent. There isn't and shouldn't be an end game in being polite.
I don't know women that "expect" things to be done for them just for being alive and female, I don't seem to associate with those people.
And jerk dudes only have success with women that are messed up. If someone wants to be with the low self esteem, messed up women out there... yeah, go be a jerk bro dude. Have fun.
Now, I've noticed that a lot of my straight male friends, when they do more or less as I do, that is to say, when they are kind to women, it doesn't seem to get them very far.
Get them very far?
What do they think courtesy and common decency will "get them"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuston
And on the other side, if you will, I've had women say to me that men should certainly show kindness but they should not expect anything in return, as women do not owe men anything.
Yes, but for BOTH genders.
We should ALL show kindness without expecting anything in return.
It is just the right thing to do.
Your guys friends probably fail because they are only being "nice" in order to get something and the women they are trying it on probably pick up on this. Most people don't like fakers or liars. I don't expect anyone to "DO" anything for me and I don't want anyone to "DO" anything for me.
I respect those who always be themselves.
This is a lesson we were taught in kindergarten: "Treat people how you want to be treated." This is not gender specific, it's just basic common knowledge.
This again. Basic kindness isn't supposed to get your anywhere, it is just being decent. There isn't and shouldn't be an end game in being polite.
I don't know women that "expect" things to be done for them just for being alive and female, I don't seem to associate with those people.
And jerk dudes only have success with women that are messed up. If someone wants to be with the low self esteem, messed up women out there... yeah, go be a jerk bro dude. Have fun.
Yup
OP..... I'm ONLY polite and kind to the ladies as it's the ONLY way to be in my opinion and it's not once worked against me
As Tim rightly said it's just a level of politeness and basic stuff... and to further add that " treat them mean and keep them keen "... UGH!!!!... it's the biggest load of bollox there is mate
Your guys friends probably fail because they are only being "nice" in order to get something and the women they are trying it on probably pick up on this. Most people don't like fakers or liars. I don't expect anyone to "DO" anything for me and I don't want anyone to "DO" anything for me.
I respect those who always be themselves.
This is a lesson we were taught in kindergarten: "Treat people how you want to be treated." This is not gender specific, it's just basic common knowledge.
To be fair, a man doing something for a woman without any expectations of attraction, what would that look like?
and to further add that " treat them mean and keep them keen "... UGH!!!!... it's the biggest load of bollox there is mate
And sure, some women (and men) respond favorably to being treated poorly, but that's pretty much a red flag indicating a crapload of baggage that you'd probably want to avoid.
When I hold the door for a senior or a lady with a stroller I am not expecting to get anything in return.
I actually hold the door for whoever is behind me if they are close. I find most people do the same regardless of gender.
What are these guys doing and what are they expecting?
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Get them very far?
What do they think courtesy and common decency will "get them"?
Interest or attraction, I would imagine. I've been told many times that niceness doesn't seem to be a very attractive quality to women. I always imagined that if I was straight, as long as i'm decent and nice to women, that they would find that attractive. but judging from what my straight friends tell me, it doesn't seem to be so. I find that odd. Why would niceness repel women?
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,962,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuston
To be fair, a man doing something for a woman without any expectations of attraction, what would that look like?
What?
Doing what?
What are you talking about?
Are you talking about a friend being nice to a friend? That looks like every other friendship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuston
Interest or attraction, I would imagine. I've been told many times that niceness doesn't seem to be a very attractive quality to women. I always imagined that if I was straight, as long as i'm decent and nice to women, that they would find that attractive. but judging from what my straight friends tell me, it doesn't seem to be so. I find that odd. Why would niceness repel women?
Wait, you think a woman is going to be interested in you just because you're not a jerk and show politeness?
Niceness doesn't repell women. But just because you're nice doesn't mean a woman is going to want you. That's insane.
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