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And this is why many men just don't do anything anymore.
Seriously?
You know, there's a huge range of possible options between ignoring a woman completely and lunging at her boobs.
Women give out all kinds of verbal and non-verbal cues to signal interest. And, by interest, it doesn't mean she's saying, "Yes, yes, take me now, my steed." Instead, she might be saying, "Hey, you've piqued my interest." Men who have more people skills than the average radish know how to read these.
You know, there's a huge range of possible options between ignoring a woman completely and lunging at her boobs.
Women give out all kinds of verbal and non-verbal cues to signal interest. And, by interest, it doesn't mean she's saying, "Yes, yes, take me now, my steed." Instead, she might be saying, "Hey, you've piqued my interest."
Oh there you go 'emasculating' everyone now. I'm just going to hide from the Boob Lungers in my blanket fort.
You know, there's a huge range of possible options between ignoring a woman completely and lunging at her boobs.
Women give out all kinds of verbal and non-verbal cues to signal interest. And, by interest, it doesn't mean she's saying, "Yes, yes, take me now, my steed." Instead, she might be saying, "Hey, you've piqued my interest." Men who have more people skills than the average radish know how to read these.
Why do you assume men dont have social skills? Too much TV?
Why do you assume men dont have social skills? Too much TV?
I'm a guy. I'm mostly referring to the bizarro questions you get on here sometimes. But men are typically much less attuned than women. I dunno. Maybe not too much TV, but rather too much ESPN.
Because doing the approaching in a sexually-harrassing way is the only thing they can come up with, so they give up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
You mean, because they're too awkward and don't have the social skills or confidence to be able to have a normal, non-threatening conversation with women? How did society end up with so many social cripples, all of a sudden?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1981
Thats right, people like you emasculated them to the point that they have no idea what is acceptable and what is not. Arent you proud?
These quotes kind of frame this little corner of the discussion, so.....
The actual line between what is and isn't sexual harassment is still brightly visible. As a man, the headlines the last several months are first sad as they describe how bad things are and how little attitudes have changed in private and as measured by behavior. It seems that we mostly talk the talk about treating each other with respect. Not so much walking the walk.
But those headlines also make me a bit concerned about trial by social media. The real problem is forcing yourself on someone by virtue of your physical power or status, but what sane man wouldn't give a passing thought to how easy it would be for someone to trash him on line, and how impossibly helpless he would be if that happened. I'm not suggesting that it's common or suggesting that people stop speaking up about abuse. I'm just saying that it's possible for men who never have and never will cross those lines to be a bit anxious, even if what we're anxious about will almost certainly never happen. That's where anxiety lives, isn't it? Where a potential problem is so unlikely or nebulous that we can't effectively prepare for it.
That anxiety sometimes takes the form of saying things like I just won't take that risk, and see what you've done. Those are nonsensical responses, but they come out of a context.
Speaking of context and what went wrong, that's a topic in itself. As a backdrop to rich and powerful men abusing their status, and people, men as a demographic are in a decline. Women, whose status seems to be on the upswing in many areas, are a relevant group to compare them with, especially when men and women are dating each other. Young women without kids out earn young men. Women attend and graduate from college at significantly higher rates than men. Economic shifts have hit hardest in fields where men were the biggest part of the work force. Men continue to go to prison, become homeless, abuse substances, engage in risky behavior that kills them and which we tend to deem normal and generally eff up their lives at rates far higher than women. Men kill themselves at 4 times the rate women do. In my age range, men kill themselves at 7 times the rate women my age do. That's a stat if I ever saw one. And so it goes.
This world, created by and for men, sure as fick wasn't created by and for me. I missed those planning meetings.
Now, I don't for a second think feminism did this to anyone. Women aren't the enemy, and that's not my contention in contrasting men's plight with theirs. But the question what's happened to men was asked here and has been asked often lately as it relates to men and women dating. A lot of men continue to flourish, but way too many aren't. Women have every right to the gains they've made and I'm all for removing remaining obstacles to their full and equal participation, starting yesterday, in the activities and decisions that shape their lives. But almost proportionate to the gains women have made, men have fallen back. And we as a culture weren't ready for that.
I feel like (don't shoot) me much of the time when a man claims "just" speaking to a woman could be "construed" as sexual harassment, it is a guy who isn't clued into the woman's cues and/or it's a guy who gives off some sort of predatory or in other way uncomfortable vibe.
I say this just having experienced it.
I'm not trying to place blame but isn't anyone here who is dreading sexual harassment claims routinely, wondering why it is them in particular, and the next guy just doesn't fear it??? Don't you want to find out why? What if you're the common denominator? I AM NOT trying to be cruel but honestly, if you are too terrified to even greet a female co-worker because you ASSUME she will cry sexual harassment, well...come on. Seriously. It's time to look deeper. I am NOT judging, I'm fully imperfect and I'm always looking deeper into my own "stuff" to figure out what my own hand is, in the issue. If I were having an ongoing issue that other people just weren't having I'd be looking deeper.
Well we could begin by denouncing feminism, which is a man hating cult with a sole focus on female supremacy. It is also the core reason for so called gender war that has been going on for decades now. Feminism is the reason for divide between men and women. It certainly isnt about equality, because it never cares about men being only 38% and decreasing of college graduates, 97% of combat deaths being men, 4 out of 5 suicides being men, 93% of workplace deaths being men or the fact that if prison rape is counted, there are more men raped in this country, than women. Its not intrested in the fact that men receive prison sentences 63% longer than women, for exact same crimes. All it does is pretend that women are perpetual victims of everything, and because most of you blindly buy it, it uses it for political strength. Maybe more poeple need to wake up, before even attempting to end feminism, because all I see is blind leading blind.
Well we could begin by denouncing feminism, which is a man hating cult with a sole focus on female supremacy. It is also the core reason for so called gender war that has been going on for decades now. Feminism is the reason for divide between men and women. It certainly isnt about equality, because it never cares about men being only 38% and decreasing of college graduates, 97% of combat deaths being men, 4 out of 5 suicides being men, 93% of workplace deaths being men or the fact that if prison rape is counted, there are more men raped in this country, than women. Its not intrested in the fact that men receive prison sentences 63% longer than women, for exact same crimes. All it does is pretend that women are perpetual victims of everything, and because most of you blindly buy it, it uses it for political strength. Maybe more poeple need to wake up, before even attempting to end feminism, because all I see is blind leading blind.
Oh my God!!!
John, seriously...and you wonder with this degree of anger why the women are running far and fast!
Don't think we don't feel this degree of overall hate even if you're standing there with a smile on your face. This sort of background attitude is where the hair stands up on the arms and you can't quite pinpoint it but you just know you want to run...run...run...
You are so angry...and I feel bad for you, but you need to get a handle on that. Nobody can do it for you.
I wish you all the best. And I honest to God am trying to help, not to inflame you further...but I think you're already pretty inflamed all by yourself so...just...you need to get a grip on why you are so infuriated. Things will not get better from here, deal with this now. You'll only get more miserable.
John, seriously...and you wonder with this degree of anger why the women are running far and fast!
Don't think we don't feel this degree of overall hate even if you're standing there with a smile on your face. This sort of background attitude is where the hair stands up on the arms and you can't quite pinpoint it but you just know you want to run...run...run...
You are so angry...and I feel bad for you, but you need to get a handle on that. Nobody can do it for you.
I wish you all the best. And I honest to God am trying to help, not to inflame you further...but I think you're already pretty inflamed all by yourself so...just...you need to get a grip on why you are so infuriated. Things will not get better from here, deal with this now. You'll only get more miserable.
Im not angry or infuriated whatsoever nor do I hate anyone for how they were born, be it gender, race or where they are from. You forgot to respond to anything I said, instead you made this into a personal attack thinly veiled as you being compassionate for my stance. It feels good to be awake and understand what world revolves around you. If men are in control in this patriarchal society, then why cant we talk about it? Why are men silenced by such rubbish? Would you like me to provide you with a source of every statistic I used in my post? Or would you like me to write you a novel of real history and goals of feminism? Because I can do both, with my eyes closed.
But those headlines also make me a bit concerned about trial by social media. The real problem is forcing yourself on someone by virtue of your physical power or status, but what sane man wouldn't give a passing thought to how easy it would be for someone to trash him on line, and how impossibly helpless he would be if that happened. I'm not suggesting that it's common or suggesting that people stop speaking up about abuse. I'm just saying that it's possible for men who never have and never will cross those lines to be a bit anxious, even if what we're anxious about will almost certainly never happen. That's where anxiety lives, isn't it? Where a potential problem is so unlikely or nebulous that we can't effectively prepare for it.
(snip)
So what do we do?
I can fully get what you're saying and it makes sense, and we've all seen this in practice (shying away, not wanting to be blasted in a negative way on social media) so it's true, but...what do we do...I actually think we're already doing it, because the thing is, people ARE still getting together. It is happening.
Most people I know are not alone, unless they actually do want to be, and that's like...well, wow. I think I can think of one person off the top of my head? That's just in my circle though. I know I don't represent the whole world.
But...yes, we're in transition. Culturally. But people are still getting together. I think we do deep down know when we're crossing a line. I don't think that has been entirely lost. I think we do know when we want someone or don't...and we choose one another now...rather than one dominating and choosing the other. It's a transition but I don't see it as negative at all, and not because I'm a woman with control, but because I'm a woman who has lots of options but at the cost of not assuming support and of having to row my own boat, sink or swim. I actually think that's preferable to the old ways.
Just a few thoughts I was having.
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