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I think our biggest disagreement is whether or not OP bringing the topic up for discussion with roommate is going to cause the friendship to break up.
If that is the case and it does, the end result will be the same if OP dates the woman and the roommate finds out. I'm pretty sure he couldn't date the woman very long before roommate catches wind of it.
I think really, either one of us could be right. I don't think you and I can really know what will happen if OP discusses it with roommate.
I think we are just arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and that is where I see this whole thing headed.
The funny part is what if the OP discusses it with his roommate, the friendship breaks up, and then the woman won't go out with OP? Or the roommate? The chick walks away with some dude that drives a motorcycle!
I'm just basing this on how I would feel, but I think if a friend of mine started seeing a guy I liked, I might be disappointed, or even angry...for a while. Then I would get over it. If that friend started seeing him without saying a word, and I learned of it months later, particularly due to them having become serious, I would not just feel disappointed and a little ticked, I would feel betrayed, and that is much worse.
Also, from a practical point of view, how do you hide your girlfriend from your roommate?
CG, you are a very wise woman! I'd like you on my team any time!
CG, you are a very wise woman! I'd like you on my team any time!
Thanks!
Part of my point, since I didn't say so explicitly, is that if the guy starts seeing her on the sly, it's insulting to the friend. It pretty much implies that he doesn't trust him enough to believe he'll handle it like an adult. If a friend of mine had such a low opinion of me, I would be very, very hurt.
I never thought of it that way! I mean as an insult. Now that you explained your logic I get it.
This is why men and women should let their hair down and really discuss things. Yes Venus and Mars are different, but they pass one another all the time and they circle the same sun!
I really like knowing the female logic or emotional way of looking at it. If we combine that with the male way of looking at it we get the whole picture!
Now here is how I would feel if I were the roommate and OP went out with the woman I had designs on, and I found out later. I would feel like my friend went behind my back and stole my woman and betrayed me and betrayed our friendship. I would get all butt hurt because I lost the woman and he got her, and I would feel that he cheated to get her. I would feel like he placed a woman over our friendship, so our friendship means nothing now. Get me?
This is how I'd feel if OP told me he thinks my girl has designs on him and he wants to date her. My heart would be broken because she wants him not me. (This assumes she wants him not me.) I would start questioning, who does she really want, him or me? I'd be really mad at OP but at least I would appreciate that he was man enough to discuss it with me BEFORE he did anything, gave me a heads up. — I think I would finally calm down and finally say, "Okay OP, maybe you got something maybe not. Let's ask her who she wants to date. If it's you then I'm cool, you can't help it if she likes you better. If it's me then you butt out and it's a done deal."
That is how mature people handle matters like this. Oh, and there are two types of guys. One honors the guy thing, one dosen't.
The guy thing is that we don't poach on our buddy's territory. Our friends' girlfriends are off limits. Our friendship depends on us respecting each other, and it's disrespectful to hit on your friend's woman.
And then there are disrespectful men who hit on anything and everything that has long hair and wears a skirt, and if she is connected to a friend, well, getting you-know-what is more important than being friends. And they probably try to get as many women as they can, just because they can.
I think that should pretty much cover the male viewpoint, wouldn't you say so Catgirl?
I never thought of it that way! I mean as an insult. Now that you explained your logic I get it.
This is why men and women should let their hair down and really discuss things. Yes Venus and Mars are different, but they pass one another all the time and they circle the same sun!
I really like knowing the female logic or emotional way of looking at it. If we combine that with the male way of looking at it we get the whole picture!
Now here is how I would feel if I were the roommate and OP went out with the woman I had designs on, and I found out later. I would feel like my friend went behind my back and stole my woman and betrayed me and betrayed our friendship. I would get all butt hurt because I lost the woman and he got her, and I would feel that he cheated to get her. I would feel like he placed a woman over our friendship, so our friendship means nothing now. Get me?
This is how I'd feel if OP told me he thinks my girl has designs on him and he wants to date her. My heart would be broken because she wants him not me. (This assumes she wants him not me.) I would start questioning, who does she really want, him or me? I'd be really mad at OP but at least I would appreciate that he was man enough to discuss it with me BEFORE he did anything, gave me a heads up. — I think I would finally calm down and finally say, "Okay OP, maybe you got something maybe not. Let's ask her who she wants to date. If it's you then I'm cool, you can't help it if she likes you better. If it's me then you butt out and it's a done deal."
That is how mature people handle matters like this. Oh, and there are two types of guys. One honors the guy thing, one dosen't.
The guy thing is that we don't poach on our buddy's territory. Our friends' girlfriends are off limits. Our friendship depends on us respecting each other, and it's disrespectful to hit on your friend's woman.
And then there are disrespectful men who hit on anything and everything that has long hair and wears a skirt, and if she is connected to a friend well getting you-know-what is more important than friends. And they probably try to get as many women as they can, just because they can.
I think that should pretty much cover the male viewpoint, wouldn't you say so Catgirl?
I wouldn't say it's an exclusively male viewpoint, as the same standards apply for women, too, if there is actually a relationship, or even if there appears to be mutual interest. If the woman in this scenario had expressed any interest in the roommate, it would be rude for the OP to interfere. As far as we know, she has not.
I think the whole picture is this: betrayal can be multi-faceted. First you have the deception, and then you have the underlying reason.
One final thought that occurs to me is that if these two end up making a competition of this and the woman feels put on the spot, she may decide it's not worth the drama and end up not dating either of them. On the other hand, there are people, both men and women, who find that sort of thing flattering and will encourage it to feed their egos. It's even possible that she is flirting with the OP to make the other guy jealous enough to make a move, a possibility that apparently hasn't occurred to anyone (and which, at least IMO, would make her not worth having.)
There are any number of ways this scenario could play out. I just don't think that deception is going to be helpful in any of them.
I get it. Okay I was thinking of the "guy thing" because I'm a man and we don't always know what women are thinking, or maybe they think the same as us. Men and women usually just do their thing without discussing.
I think to solve the problem somebody has to find out if the woman prefers one, the other, both, or neither. Maybe both of them are dreamers.
I think there is a very good chance that if the woman sees this getting ugly she's going to walk. If I were the woman I would walk for sure. I'd go find some man who isn't a hot head.
On the other hand, there are drama queens who enjoy having men fight over them. This is the female counterpart to the male who wants to get into the pants of every woman, or as many as possible as often as possible. I'm sad to say there are a lot of men like that. It is a biological genetic competition thing. That's the male strategy in a nut shell. Impregnate as many women as possible. And God (or nature) made it fun.
That is an actual possibility that she is playing them both. I know at least one drama queen who would totally do that if she saw it to her advantage. (My buddy's niece. Trailer trash.)
We completely agree that deception is going to be a problem. I think OP should man up and chat his roommate. That's the only way that this has any possible way of ending well. I M O
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Or the roommate? 
