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Technically it's not a male/female thing, it's an options thing. It just so happens that the AVERAGE female has more options than the AVERAGE male.
in group therapy I hear women all the time complain "why do all the guys who have their $#!t together have a fear of commitment?" and every guy in the room will say "because they know they have options!!!!!".
So if some guy who when single may manage to land 1 or 2 date a month(moderately attractive guy) gets involved with a woman who when single averaged 8 or 9 date offers a week or 3 or 4 even when not putting herself out there(moderately attractive woman), of course he is going to be more invested in the relationship and want to move it along more quickly.
Part of this is because of expectations and the differences between what men and women look for.
Joe average is happy with someone moderately attractive and pleasant to be around, average woman want's those things also but add a certain job level, home is a specific number of neighborhoods, melding seamlessly with her friends and family etc etc
Joe average pretty much has to ice-skate uphill.
So it is a factor of starvation. I could see that.
If you are getting a ton of (a good) something and a regular supply of it with no end in sight, you tend to take it for granted. However, if you are hardly getting it, you tend to want it more.
Abundance vs. Scarcity is what it all comes down to.
I have girlfriends that go from relationship to relationship always claiming they've found the love of their life and end up getting burned and fall apart from it, how they continue to allow themselves to fall so quickly is beyond my comprehension.
Same. I sort of envy them in a way. It's like they can just ignore logic and throw themselves in, over and over again. I'd be physically incapable of that. I tend to approach relationships logically vs emotionally, so if I can see reasons it won't work out, I just never open my heart.
Sometimes, I think you almost have to be slightly crazy or stupid to fall in love... no offense to anyone. Hopefully you understand what I mean. Because love is almost always painful, and my logical mind is always going to want to protect me from it. Maybe one day I'll meet a human with the right sort of energy, and it will feel safe and relaxed to proceed, but I'm not counting on it. It seems many people these days are just too unstable and bring too much baggage to the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphorx
Technically it's not a male/female thing, it's an options thing. It just so happens that the AVERAGE female has more options than the AVERAGE male.
in group therapy I hear women all the time complain "why do all the guys who have their $#!t together have a fear of commitment?" and every guy in the room will say "because they know they have options!!!!!".
Yeah and there's nothing wrong with that. That's not being "afraid" of commitment. That's just dating and not having met anyone who they want to commit to.
Being "afraid of commitment", in my opinion, would involve being deeply in love and wanting to commit but struggling with it. A lot of people use "afraid of commitment" to explain why someone rejected them. It's like no, they are not afraid. They just don't think that person is worth committing to. Hard to hear, but true.
Same. I sort of envy them in a way. It's like they can just ignore logic and throw themselves in, over and over again. I'd be physically incapable of that. I tend to approach relationships logically vs emotionally, so if I can see reasons it won't work out, I just never open my heart.
Sometimes, I think you almost have to be slightly crazy or stupid to fall in love... no offense to anyone. Hopefully you understand what I mean. Because love is almost always painful, and my logical mind is always going to want to protect me from it. Maybe one day I'll meet a human with the right sort of energy, and it will feel safe and relaxed to proceed, but I'm not counting on it. It seems many people these days are just too unstable and bring too much baggage to the table.
Really can't disagree with anything you have said here. Especially the part about being envious of others being able to fall so quickly. I used to envy people like that, but not anymore. Once I was able to see the flaws in myself and other people, the appeal of dating/relationships fell quite a bit for me. I don't idealize or glamorize them anymore. Like you, I'm also very analytical and logical. I don't think there is anything wrong with coming to terms with the reality of people and being cautious about interlocking your life with someone else.
There are lots of reasons to hold off on dating or to be a little "cynical." Being so vulnerable with someone can be a wonderful thing, but also detrimental. It's up to the individual to decide if they want to take that risk. I'm not going to judge either one. However, the opinions are going to differ greatly based on one's experience with love. Someone who has had wonderful experiences with it, may be more apt to advocate for it, and vice verse for someone who has had not so great experiences with it.
It also depends on what you're looking for. If someone is the "better to have loved and lost" type, they may fair better than someone who wants a forever commitment. *Sigh* so many variables, but I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.
Same. I sort of envy them in a way. It's like they can just ignore logic and throw themselves in, over and over again. I'd be physically incapable of that. I tend to approach relationships logically vs emotionally, so if I can see reasons it won't work out, I just never open my heart.
Sometimes, I think you almost have to be slightly crazy or stupid to fall in love... no offense to anyone. Hopefully you understand what I mean. Because love is almost always painful, and my logical mind is always going to want to protect me from it. Maybe one day I'll meet a human with the right sort of energy, and it will feel safe and relaxed to proceed, but I'm not counting on it. It seems many people these days are just too unstable and bring too much baggage to the table.
I envy it too. Wouldn't it be an amazing feeling to let yourself fall madly in love, just once? To let the walls come down and be exposed and vulnerable, be ok with potentially having your heartbroken. Like the love stories we grew up reading. Sigh.
I envy it too. Wouldn't it be an amazing feeling to let yourself fall madly in love, just once? To let the walls come down and be exposed and vulnerable, be ok with potentially having your heartbroken. Like the love stories we grew up reading. Sigh.
Experience/witness enough heartbreak/heartache, and even falling madly in love wouldn't feel so good...
I answered "Other" because I don't believe that this is a gendered thing. And while options and abundance/scarcity are part of it, that's not the whole story, either. Every person's essential psychology is a major determining factor, their unique set of life experiences and how things have shaped them. What they need and want, or think they do. Just so many things.
As a woman with a pretty high "count" of partners in her past, I note that far more often guys got attached to me, versus me getting attached to them. Both happening in a reciprocal way has been the rarest of all things, only present truly with my current partner. I don't think, though, that I can take this as a matter of statistical sampling. I think it's got to do with variables at work. Because a significant chunk of those numbers of teenage boys (when I was also a teen) and men I've been with, quite a few were virgins. So there was a "puppy love" for one's first lover thing going on with some of them. And I am a nurturing soul who gives lots of attention and care to people even when I'm not in love with them, which has led some of the other men to get attached.
I would say that both my ex and I had some abandonment issues from our early life history. But how we responded to it is completely different, almost an opposite reaction. He clings and tries to control a partner in a desperate sort of way, and then in the relationship, constantly challenges her to "prove" that she isn't about to abandon him. Being with him was constant push-pull. I, on the other hand, can be prone to some restlessness and I find thinking of permanence in relationships ("this will last until I die" thinking) to be intensely uncomfortable. Depressing, even. Like if I ever reached a point where I wasn't looking forward to new horizons and unknown futures and big changes in life, I'd feel like my life might as well be over. I'm not into the idea of stagnating in one home, one job, with one partner...just staying put and getting older and eventually dying. Point being, I don't feel comfortable expecting anyone to be a permanent part of my life, because people generally weren't, when I was growing up. Yet to some extent I crave stability, too...so I have this older partner, who I expect I'll probably outlive by a decade or two, and I can be ok with the idea of "long term, but not FOREVER" in this.
My ex projects a demand of "MEET MY NEEDS--My problems should be everybody's top priority!"...and I am more like, "Oh no, I couldn't possibly ask you to meet my needs, that would be imposing. I know that no one really wants to concern themselves with my problems." He feels a dread of dying alone, I feel a dread of having anyone around when I die, to be inconvenienced or hurt by it. Odd how two people with flaky caregivers can go in vastly different directions with how we form attachments to others, but it's all in the psychology.
I answered "Other" because I don't believe that this is a gendered thing. And while options and abundance/scarcity are part of it, that's not the whole story, either. Every person's essential psychology is a major determining factor, their unique set of life experiences and how things have shaped them. What they need and want, or think they do. Just so many things.
As a woman with a pretty high "count" of partners in her past, I note that far more often guys got attached to me, versus me getting attached to them. Both happening in a reciprocal way has been the rarest of all things, only present truly with my current partner. I don't think, though, that I can take this as a matter of statistical sampling. I think it's got to do with variables at work. Because a significant chunk of those numbers of teenage boys (when I was also a teen) and men I've been with, quite a few were virgins. So there was a "puppy love" for one's first lover thing going on with some of them. And I am a nurturing soul who gives lots of attention and care to people even when I'm not in love with them, which has led some of the other men to get attached.
I would say that both my ex and I had some abandonment issues from our early life history. But how we responded to it is completely different, almost an opposite reaction. He clings and tries to control a partner in a desperate sort of way, and then in the relationship, constantly challenges her to "prove" that she isn't about to abandon him. Being with him was constant push-pull. I, on the other hand, can be prone to some restlessness and I find thinking of permanence in relationships ("this will last until I die" thinking) to be intensely uncomfortable. Depressing, even. Like if I ever reached a point where I wasn't looking forward to new horizons and unknown futures and big changes in life, I'd feel like my life might as well be over. I'm not into the idea of stagnating in one home, one job, with one partner...just staying put and getting older and eventually dying. Point being, I don't feel comfortable expecting anyone to be a permanent part of my life, because people generally weren't, when I was growing up. Yet to some extent I crave stability, too...so I have this older partner, who I expect I'll probably outlive by a decade or two, and I can be ok with the idea of "long term, but not FOREVER" in this.
My ex projects a demand of "MEET MY NEEDS--My problems should be everybody's top priority!"...and I am more like, "Oh no, I couldn't possibly ask you to meet my needs, that would be imposing. I know that no one really wants to concern themselves with my problems." He feels a dread of dying alone, I feel a dread of having anyone around when I die, to be inconvenienced or hurt by it. Odd how two people with flaky caregivers can go in vastly different directions with how we form attachments to others, but it's all in the psychology.
I tend to be one of those people who are more avoidant. My life situation... I'll explain it. Whenever I am surrounded by friends, at some point I end up surrounded by a different group of people that are either my enemies or are just there to use me or are just outright toxic to me.
I somehow developed abandonment issues and tend to avoid getting attached because when I get attached, I feel attached, but I do my best to avoid acting on it to not scare the person I am attached to away. When the person I'm attached to starts getting distant, I start feeling some sort of anxiety, but instead of clinging on, I find ways to get past it.
Even though I am highly sought after, I am a rather clingy person at heart. However, it is rare that my clingy side comes out. My clingy side did come out some time in the recent years (someone I either misread or scared off, or both), and it hurt when she moved on (This was about a couple of years ago or so).
I am one of those people that when I have certain issues that I am anxious to take care of, I'd rather not be bothered. Even if I don't have any pressing issues, I am still a hard person to meet. I tend to "screen" most people that meet me so that I know if they are going to be a lot of trouble or "high maintenance" (I often have a lot on my plate so there are times when I am just going to be unavailable, and anyone that tries to get in the way of me taking care of what I need to take care of relatively early in any type of relationship we have, he is GONE!!!
Anyone tries to get very close to me very early, GONE!!!
I catch anyone asking around about me or my whereabouts when they've just met me, GONE!!!
It doesn't matter how "good" of a person or "nice" you think a person is, "good" "nice" or "kind-hearted" people are not property.
In my other life, I dated men who generally became attached quickly, but I was open to that. Now, not so much. I think it has a lot to do with my atheism.
Women are pretty much primed from birth to be stereotypical "emotional" creatures due to ideology, just as men are conditioned to stuff their emotions.
In my other life, I dated men who generally became attached quickly, but I was open to that. Now, not so much. I think it has a lot to do with my atheism.
Women are pretty much primed from birth to be stereotypical "emotional" creatures due to ideology, just as men are conditioned to stuff their emotions.
We are certainly told that's how we supposedly are.
I haven't found it to be true though, that women are actually more emotional or complicated or any such thing, as compared to men. Not in my life experience. Nope.
In my experience, we all can get googly eyed just as fast as the next person.
Couldn't have said it any better.
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