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Old 07-01-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
5,987 posts, read 10,474,130 times
Reputation: 10809

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
I, however, can't imagine someone with a not-terrible marriage peaking (which I think is the key word) in happiness after becoming a widow/widower (and all else being equal and a better new relationship notwithstanding). Losing a partner is very upsetting.
You need to stretch your imagination. I am pretty sure my MIL is happier since her husband died than she was for many, many years prior. She has really blossomed since: she has a wider circle of friends, and has tried and enjoyed many new activities ranging from going to pro baseball games to engaging in charitable work. She has also traveled a lot - she went to France two years ago, and we're going on a cruise with her later this year.

She didn't have a bad marriage, by any means - it actually seemed reasonably good. However, I think she is more fulfilled now, and happier.

 
Old 07-01-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,398 posts, read 14,673,179 times
Reputation: 39507
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingLiberty1919D View Post
I am similar to you I think. I was happy single, miserable married, and now I am divorced and happier than any other point in my life aside form childhood I think (and that's only because I have adult worries now). But it wasn't marriage or "men" in general that was the source of my unhappiness. It was the one man I was married too.

He made my life a living hell. He didn't love me (he couldn't love me it turns out) and I felt like I had three full time jobs because I did everything: worked 40 hours a week, did all the child care, did all the housework, did all the yard work, did all the home repairs, etc. On top of all that, he left me in debt. Most of that debt was due to the upside down house but he was also not good with managing his credit cards (and had a lot of secret credit that I got to share when we split).

Him leaving me ended up being really sad for me for a few days, then I was delighted that I would be free soon. I love my freedom and I won't marry again. I say that out of a combination of fear that it will happen again and also a sense of why bother. I've been married and don't need to be again. I am doing fine and am happy being single.

One thing about this whole thread though, it "assumes single with no man in her life" or "married" are the two options. They aren't. I am single (as in not married), but I have a boyfriend who has been with me for four years now. We are happy with the relationship the way it is. We have the best of both worlds (freedom of singleness and the companionship and love of each other). Why mess up a good thing?
I actually do plan to marry the man that I've been with for almost 4 years. We've lived together for nearly 2, and it's been going very well. Yes, my marriage was a disaster, but I was very young and there was a lot about life, and about myself, that I either hadn't yet learned or was not honoring in ways I have since learned to do.

Why bother changing things by getting married? Well, there are certain logistical considerations this will, all in one swoop, take care of handily. Mostly estate stuff and insurance. And unlike my ill-fated first marriage, where we got married at the courthouse in what was about as exciting a bureaucratic errand as a trip to the DMV, I want to have an actual WEDDING this time, to celebrate the love my partner and I feel for one another. A modest wedding, but a wedding nevertheless. The incidental fact that we put a pitiably minimal amount of effort into our wedding when my Ex and I married was rather symbolic to me of...well...the whole thing, you know? This man I am with now, our bond deserves better. It will probably be incredibly weird, and hopefully a lot of fun.

But yes, I've been happier since my divorce than I've ever been at any time in my life.

But then I have not been lonely. I make friends very easily and I've got a great network. Even without a serious partner, I would not have been lonely or isolated. I don't live that way.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Avignon, France
11,162 posts, read 7,969,781 times
Reputation: 28973
Quote:
Originally Posted by funymann View Post
I thought you wanted a baby?
I’d just need his sperm for that.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 02:57 PM
 
12,101 posts, read 17,100,368 times
Reputation: 15776
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
First of all, everyone knows that people are happiest in good relationships - but that doesn't mean much, because many marriages aren't happy.

Some studies say single women are happier (and healthier) than married women - but that deserves more examination. The research focuses on middle-aged women. Health problems often start in middle age, and many studies show happiness for both sexes declines in middle age.

Also, anxious women (who often are less happy) are more likely to marry than less anxious women. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17270393 Anxious women seem to have, or develop, more health problems too. Anxious men probably are less likely to marry than other men - but I don't know if I saw data about that.

Then there's the truism that singles who are trying and failing to enter into relationships are less happy than singles who aren't trying, and middle age is when many single women stop putting much effort into coupling up.

Are you swayed at all by my argument? Do you have any other explanations? This is about small differences in happiness, but it does matter if people decide to stay single based on false information. The million-dollar question that research probably can't answer: how does a mediocre marriage affect happiness?
For middle aged or elderly people?

This is a tough one if you don't have kids I think.

I agree, people are happiest in great, matching relationships but a lot of people don't have that.

So, is it happier to be in a decent but lacking relationship or be single? I think it's a valid question.

I think as a younger person (<35), it's always better to be single because there's always single people and childless people to companion with.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 02:59 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,616 posts, read 4,885,622 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
If a woman, as an individual, doesn't feel she needs a man, then there isn't anything wrong with her feeling or living that way. If she struggles to find love (likely because of issues that SHE has because let's face it--if you are the common denominator, there's good odds that you're the problem) and somebody tells her "Well, look at this study, there's no guarantee you'd be any happier married"...if it helps her cope with being single, then what is wrong with that? If that brings them comfort, then I see not issue with them embracing that message.

The fact is, if they sort themselves out enough to be happy as single people, their odds of finding a happy relationship also increase. If they are inclined to be hostile to men and relationships with men, it wasn't because they were brainwashed by a feminist therapist to think that way. They already had that mentality, to some degree, or they'd reject that message. People embrace things that support biases they already have. And no amount of debunking the data is going to change their minds, just as no amount of studies are going to convince a woman who knows she wants a relationship, that she ought to stop wanting one.
For me, it's more about debunking data so that it doesn't spread and infect others. I'm skeptical that many marriages cause lasting, unfixable unhappiness, and there's always the option of divorce.

I think some people get burned in dating or relationships and then fall into a rabbit hole, where if instead they're met with the right kind of information and support, they can move on much faster.

Quote:
I read something recently that said that husbands add, on average, 7 hours per week of housework to the life of a woman. In most relationships that I have seen, I could well agree with that. But then I'd be like, well, I know people who passionately acquire pets...sometimes a dog, sometimes a house full of animals. I know a family with seven children. It isn't my place to tell them they'd sure be happier if they had less of these work-generating living factors in their household. It ain't my life!

I'd say the general advice I would give people is that if they have a pretty good idea of what happiness would look like for them, then they should by all means pursue it. If that turns into enough of a frustration and a struggle that it has become more unhappy than happy, then they should try instead to find joy in whatever they've got, and work on whatever self-improvement they can do that may get them where they'd like to be one day. Maybe set aside one goal and work on other ones for a time. One might find that they're perfectly happy where they are, and that's great, or one might find more joy in a journey to another situation, and that's great too. The only thing that sucks is when someone spins their wheels in a state of ongoing misery.


Quote:
And frankly whenever THIS subject comes up, it's usually reeking of the notion that if any number of women great or small have decided to find peace and happiness without a man, they are robbing a poor lonely man somewhere of his chance to live a happy life. Just like when a man says he's happy without a marriage to a woman, there is sometimes that "I'll show you, you'll be REAL sorry I took myself off the market when you can't find a good man!" flavor to it.
It's simple reality that if many sellers (unless it's a terrible batch thereof) disappear from the market, it's bad for buyers; data is clear that men do better married; and no men like "I don't need a man" messages. (I snipped the weird parsnip expression.)
 
Old 07-01-2019, 03:05 PM
 
13,262 posts, read 8,032,233 times
Reputation: 30753
I read your link. Why are you making this all about women? The article was pretty straight forward...If you have generalized anxiety, it tends to make for unhappy relationships. That doesn't seem so surprising to me...but it's applicable to men and women.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 03:14 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,616 posts, read 4,885,622 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingLiberty1919D View Post
One thing about this whole thread though, it "assumes single with no man in her life" or "married" are the two options. They aren't. I am single (as in not married), but I have a boyfriend who has been with me for four years now. We are happy with the relationship the way it is. We have the best of both worlds (freedom of singleness and the companionship and love of each other). Why mess up a good thing?

Only two options because 1) personal bias 2) the research/media compares single women (celibate or not, I don't know) to married women and I don't have data to argue about happiness in other arrangements. I'm sure comparisons of subgroups of "single" women and subgroups of married women would be more enlightening, for example, if household net worth is taken into account.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Mr. Roger's Neighborhood
4,088 posts, read 2,564,078 times
Reputation: 12495
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
For me, it's more about debunking data so that it doesn't spread and infect others. I'm skeptical that many marriages cause lasting, unfixable unhappiness, and there's always the option of divorce.

I think some people get burned in dating or relationships and then fall into a rabbit hole, where if instead they're met with the right kind of information and support, they can move on much faster.







It's simple reality that if many sellers (unless it's a terrible batch thereof) disappear from the market, it's bad for buyers; data is clear that men do better married; and no men like "I don't need a man" messages. (I snipped the weird parsnip expression.)
"...spread and infect others...."????

As if it's part of our duty as a human beings (specially female humans) to be available as some sort of product to buyers in need of said product. It's not my job as a woman to make a man's life better by marrying him (the reverse is also true).

As for your breezy comment, "there's always the option of divorce": I have too many words to say about that other than divorcing isn't as easy as returning a shirt that didn't fit or didn't appear in person as it was shown in the online pics to Amazon.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 03:17 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
16,225 posts, read 27,438,836 times
Reputation: 31495
Someone mentioned that they don't have to mow the lawn or change oil in their car because they have a husband.

As a divorced homeowner with a car, the cost-benefit analysis looks like this:

Gardener : $40 a month
Oil change : $25 every three months

I'll gladly pay for these services and skip having to share my home with a man. No smelly socks on the floor, no urine stains all over the bathroom, no skid marks in the laundry, food left out on the counter, dirty dishes in the sink, no 'honey, I'm sorry you're so sick today that you are bedridden. Do you think you could crawl out of bed and make me a sammich?' No adulterating of the thermostat, hiding of the TV remote, no using my face towel to mop up random spills on the bathroom floor, no picking apart of my choices in life. I could go on but I think I've made my point.

I'm living the happiest years of my life since drop kicking the hubby. With or without a life companion - I have been with and without in the years since, and find that my happiness is unwavering. Is it nice to be with someone? Sure. Do I HAVE to be with someone? Heck to the no. I'd rather be alone than with someone who drags my life.
 
Old 07-01-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,441,267 times
Reputation: 55562
Recent studies imply anxiety levels higher among women in this generation than prior
When women step up to the plate of opportunity stress related illness is no longer a guy thing
Heart disease- not breast cancer -is number one killer of women
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