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I don't think it has to do with feminine men or masculine women. Masculine women are by no means shunned by guys if they do guy activities and according to the recent gallup poll, a lot more women identify as bisexual, so feminine men shouldn't be offturning.
I believe it's more of a double standard where a good chunk of females are largely apathetic and dare I say downright lazy when it comes to meeting people and dating. There's a big incel problem in America and the vast majority of them are females.
Why do I say this? If we define incel as "I've given up on putting any meaningful effort into meeting people and dating because my potential partner just isn't out there and it's not worth it", many many more women fit this definition, as pointed out by this thread! Males get all the backlash when they say things like "I can't find the woman I deserve" but women never do...
Who are the ones usually putting themselves out there to meet people in meetups or at a bar? Men
Who's the ones with the majority of OLD profiles? Men
Which sex is catered to in OLD? Women.
Who are the ones who initiate and carry conversations? Men
Someone said that women desire men with more social skills? Ha. I have yet to have a real life or OLD encounter where a woman does the legwork to drive conversations and generate topics of interest.
As has been pointed out, that's not the definition of Incel.
Not to derail this thread or to toot my own horn (pardon the pun), I have two threads in Great Debates relevant to points raised here by both Moongirl & Ascension 3000.
1: "Should the US Strive to Increase Population Significantly" which addresses falling fertility rates, which are one consequence of the decline of sexual activity, and,
2: "The Unintended Consequences of Criminalising Sex Work", which is based on a National Bureau of Economic Research paper that found among other things, after criminalisation health care costs jumped by 58%, and after 5 years, sex work returned to its pre-criminalisation levels, which calls into question some of the underlying assumptions for criminalising. Both threads have run their course, I'm not soliciting extra comment there.
I'll add one more comment here. With the amount of rejection men experience in dating, it's hardly surprising that they look elsewhere for some satisfaction. If women felt a similar need, to the same extent, you can be sure there would be no shortage of men willing to oblige.
In most of my relationships and casual encounters the woman made the first move. It was a rush not a turn off. Why wouldn't a guy like that?
If it happened to me, I couldn't believe or accept it and would fly like a thief. Has this person lost a bet, agreed to participate in some elaborate social experiment or are they just unhinged?
I don't think it has to do with feminine men or masculine women. Masculine women are by no means shunned by guys if they do guy activities and according to the recent gallup poll, a lot more women identify as bisexual, so feminine men shouldn't be offturning.
I believe it's more of a double standard where a good chunk of females are largely apathetic and dare I say downright lazy when it comes to meeting people and dating. There's a big incel problem in America and the vast majority of them are females.
Why do I say this? If we define incel as "I've given up on putting any meaningful effort into meeting people and dating because my potential partner just isn't out there and it's not worth it", many many more women fit this definition, as pointed out by this thread! Males get all the backlash when they say things like "I can't find the woman I deserve" but women never do...
Who are the ones usually putting themselves out there to meet people in meetups or at a bar? Men
Who's the ones with the majority of OLD profiles? Men
Which sex is catered to in OLD? Women.
Who are the ones who initiate and carry conversations? Men
Someone said that women desire men with more social skills? Ha. I have yet to have a real life or OLD encounter where a woman does the legwork to drive conversations and generate topics of interest.
But maybe you ARE finding the women you deserve...if that's the measuring stick you're using.
I've often told younger women "Be the kind of woman that the man you'd like to attract would like." I think the same applies to men.
I don't think there's anything wrong with ANYONE taking a step back, and deciding to NOT date for awhile. Re-evaluate things, taking time to just rest, or pursuing other interests, or whatever. But it's not an attractive trait, to complain about how you do all the work, and then expect people to flock to you. Just sayin...
I dropped out several years ago. Basically, I became tired of having to put forth all the effort when it came to initiating communication, outings, sex, etc. I felt the very dynamic of modern dating was forcing me to act in ways not in line with what I would value in a relationship or partnership. That's when I became aware of the strategies being taught to women on how to relate to men and how to combat "strategies" being used by modern men, especially in online dating. Naturally, I became more curious about what these "male strategies" were, which led briefly to PUA groups and eventually to the manosphere (things like MGTOW, MRA, etc.). I quickly left both behind due to the toxicity that inherently breeds in these internet groups. It's both fascinating and horrifying to watch as these "dating support" internet groups for both men and women become echo chambers of misandry and misogyny. Is it any wonder our society is becoming more polarized and tribal?
I resonated with the premise of MGTOW as a philosophy for men to refocus their lives on improving themselves. However, I just couldn't agree with participating in internet forums that quickly turn into swamps of hatred. So, rather than becoming hateful myself, I decided to take a true hard look at my values and priorities in life, and embraced a more of a monk like philosophy. The way I see it, it's a win-win for myself and women. I get a less stressful life, more time and money, and there's one less guy out there to bother them. I wish more people frustrated with dating would just truly "go their own way," rather than getting angry and letting their hatred stew. Seriously, it's like we're living in a gender cold war with mutually assured destruction.
Last edited by LaKings55; 04-22-2021 at 09:22 AM..
As has been pointed out, that's not the definition of Incel.
According to Google, it says they are people who are unable to find a romantic partner despite desiring one. The only thing we're debating here is the definition of "suitable partner".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy
But maybe you ARE finding the women you deserve...if that's the measuring stick you're using.
I've often told younger women "Be the kind of woman that the man you'd like to attract would like." I think the same applies to men.
I don't think there's anything wrong with ANYONE taking a step back, and deciding to NOT date for awhile. Re-evaluate things, taking time to just rest, or pursuing other interests, or whatever. But it's not an attractive trait, to complain about how you do all the work, and then expect people to flock to you. Just sayin...
Lol... You can be as great of dating material as there is, but if there's no encounters to meet a partner, that doesn't do much good. I certainly don't expect women to flock to me, but is it too much to ask that they participate in a conversation beside 1 or 2 word replies??? All I'm saying is that women cry about how they can't get the man they want, but put little effort into doing any legwork into meeting men.
Please explain to me why males should do all the legwork in initiating relationships.
I dropped out several years ago. Basically, I became tired of having to put forth all the effort when it came to initiating communication, outings, sex, etc. I felt the very dynamic of modern dating was forcing me to act in ways not in line with what I would value in a relationship or partnership. That's when I became aware of the strategies being taught to women on how to relate to men and how to combat "strategies" being used by modern men, especially in online dating. Naturally, I became more curious about what these "male strategies" were, which led briefly to PUA groups and eventually to the manosphere (things like MGTOW, MRA, etc.). I quickly left both behind due to the toxicity that inherently breeds in these internet groups. It's both fascinating and horrifying to watch as these "dating support" internet groups for both men and women become echo chambers of misandry and misogyny. Is it any wonder our society is becoming more polarized and tribal?
I resonated with the premise of MGTOW as a philosophy for men to refocus their lives on improving themselves. However, I just couldn't agree with participating in internet forums that quickly turn into swamps of hatred. So, rather than becoming hateful myself, I decided to take a true hard look at my values and priorities in life, and embraced a more of a monk like philosophy. The way I see it, it's a win-win for myself and women. I get a less stressful life, more time and money, and there's one less guy out there to bother them. I wish more people frustrated with dating would just truly "go their own way," rather than getting angry and letting their hatred stew. Seriously, it's like we're living in a gender cold war with mutually assured destruction.
This is probably the most sane and balanced response to dropping out of dating I've ever seen, at least in THIS forum.
Lol... You can be as great of dating material as there is, but if there's no encounters to meet a partner, that doesn't do much good. I certainly don't expect women to flock to me, but is it too much to ask that they participate in a conversation beside 1 or 2 word replies??? All I'm saying is that women cry about how they can't get the man they want, but put little effort into doing any legwork into meeting men.
Please explain to me why males should do all the legwork in initiating relationships.
Women aren't a hive mind who all want the same thing, though. That's what this whole thread is about. The woman who gives you a one-word answer at the grocery store when you try to start a conversation might not actually be a woman who "cries" about not getting a man. She might be going home to her boyfriend (or her girlfriend! Or her dog!) and is not interested in stroking some random dude's ego in the frozen food aisle.
This is probably the most sane and balanced response to dropping out of dating I've ever seen, at least in THIS forum.
I tell my friends who still try to date the same thing every time they complain about their frustrations, "how can you expect different results from doing the same thing." The way I see it, you can only hit your head against a wall so many times and keep blaming the wall.
Last edited by LaKings55; 04-22-2021 at 10:06 AM..
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