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OP, why does it matter? It doesn't matter why he does what he does or whether he knows it's "bad." It matters that he does it. End of story. What is psychoanalyzing him going to do for you? Do you think it will make you feel better about what he does? Do you think it is a reason you shouldn't leave him? No, really, what do you think it's going to do for you even if you could get deep inside his head? I'd like to know, or rather, I'd like you to think about it and whether it makes any sense or would make any difference whatsoever to your situation or what you should do about it.
Don't be yet another one of those people who needs to understand "why" something happens or "why" someone is the way they are to be able to move on. I feel like a broken record when I keep saying you may never know so making yourself neurotic over "loose ends" is fruitless.
OK, I am so glad, OP that you are out, in your own place, with legal protections. Thank you for coming back to the thread (even after some of the unkind things that were said) and letting us know that.
The impulse you have now to analyze his behavior and dwell on what you have been through, is part of your processing. It is actually very normal for you to feel the need to do this. People do it all the time, whether they were abused or even when things go a way that was hurtful to them emotionally (like a breakup that hurts your heart)...really most painful situations leave us with this feeling that we need to examine every detail and understand WHY.
It's only when you had no real emotional investment of any kind in a situation, that you can walk away with a clear head and no desire to do this. It's when you had all the power, really, and leaving was your own easy choice to make, that one feels no need at all to do this.
So what you feel now is pretty normal. But that does not mean that you need to fully indulge it, either. There is a difference between cleaning a wound so that it can heal, and picking at it in a way that keeps it bleeding, right? So.
There is NOTHING that you did, nothing you COULD do, that justifies his behavior. Including not leaving sooner. Leaving an abuser is hard to do. It is the time that abuse victims are in the most danger to their lives from an abuser, when they are trying to leave. I wish more people understood this. It's incredibly hard to do, and women have to be very careful in how they proceed. The mindset of, "I'll never understand why women don't just leave" is actually unkind. It does not shock victims into taking the appropriate action. Shaming someone for having suffered abuse does not help them feel a need to avoid it in the future. To those who say these things, YOU AREN'T HELPING. You're literally kicking someone when they are down. It's not a good look. And at the end of the day, she got out with her kids and no one has died. So she did good.
OP, I suggest you now work on changing the narrative in your mind. Find words that have meaning to tell yourself. One of mine was, "I'm liberating myself from this." Remind yourself that you and your children deserve peace and kindness and happiness, and do what you can to create that in your environment. Since abusers often latch on to kind and compassionate people, and it's a trap I've been in before, I can tell you this...all I feel for the one in my past is a vague kind of pity (and a bit of anger/frustration when he continues to fail one of our sons, the one who still speaks to him.) Why pity? Well, see, I no longer have to live with him...but he has to live with himself, forever. And abusers are often really miserable human beings. But people like us...we cannot save them from that. If anyone can, it's they themselves, but usually they don't. They CHOOSE to not get help and they CHOOSE rather than finding a path to happiness, to instead be spreaders and makers of misery. That's his karma, and he'll have to deal with it.
But guess what? It was never a problem you could solve, and it's not your problem anymore.
OK, I am so glad, OP that you are out, in your own place, with legal protections. Thank you for coming back to the thread (even after some of the unkind things that were said) and letting us know that.
The impulse you have now to analyze his behavior and dwell on what you have been through, is part of your processing. It is actually very normal for you to feel the need to do this. People do it all the time, whether they were abused or even when things go a way that was hurtful to them emotionally (like a breakup that hurts your heart)...really most painful situations leave us with this feeling that we need to examine every detail and understand WHY.
It's only when you had no real emotional investment of any kind in a situation, that you can walk away with a clear head and no desire to do this. It's when you had all the power, really, and leaving was your own easy choice to make, that one feels no need at all to do this.
So what you feel now is pretty normal. But that does not mean that you need to fully indulge it, either. There is a difference between cleaning a wound so that it can heal, and picking at it in a way that keeps it bleeding, right? So.
There is NOTHING that you did, nothing you COULD do, that justifies his behavior. Including not leaving sooner. Leaving an abuser is hard to do. It is the time that abuse victims are in the most danger to their lives from an abuser, when they are trying to leave. I wish more people understood this. It's incredibly hard to do, and women have to be very careful in how they proceed. The mindset of, "I'll never understand why women don't just leave" is actually unkind. It does not shock victims into taking the appropriate action. Shaming someone for having suffered abuse does not help them feel a need to avoid it in the future. To those who say these things, YOU AREN'T HELPING. You're literally kicking someone when they are down. It's not a good look. And at the end of the day, she got out with her kids and no one has died. So she did good.
OP, I suggest you now work on changing the narrative in your mind. Find words that have meaning to tell yourself. One of mine was, "I'm liberating myself from this." Remind yourself that you and your children deserve peace and kindness and happiness, and do what you can to create that in your environment. Since abusers often latch on to kind and compassionate people, and it's a trap I've been in before, I can tell you this...all I feel for the one in my past is a vague kind of pity (and a bit of anger/frustration when he continues to fail one of our sons, the one who still speaks to him.) Why pity? Well, see, I no longer have to live with him...but he has to live with himself, forever. And abusers are often really miserable human beings. But people like us...we cannot save them from that. If anyone can, it's they themselves, but usually they don't. They CHOOSE to not get help and they CHOOSE rather than finding a path to happiness, to instead be spreaders and makers of misery. That's his karma, and he'll have to deal with it.
But guess what? It was never a problem you could solve, and it's not your problem anymore.
I recently broke up with my partner after 3 years. We both had kids from previous relationships. He has extreme anger issues. He has done some terrible things to me and I'd expect that someone who had done such things would be apologetic and remorseful but he's not. He insists it's my fault for "making him that way" and for leaving when it gets bad. I want to know what other men think of this behaviour. I've told him I want to be in a relationship ship where I am loved and respected and he says I'll find that with some guy who is gay or not masculine.
He has broken my hand, pulled me by my hair and ripped handfuls of my hair out, smashed things, damaged my car, insulted me, degraded me, spat on me, destroyed my engagement ring because I confronted his child about being nasty to mine, called my kids names in reference to their weight and appearance, gotten jealous when I speak to my friends on the phone or text them, pulled over on a highway and threw me out of his car and I've walked home, tells me he owns me, he has called me some of the most vile disgusting names I've ever heard.
He then tells me it's me. I trigger him and need to change the way I am in order to not get that response from him. He says I'm unstable and I'm responsible for his reactions. I changed my surname to his at his request then every time we fight he calls me by me ex partners surname. He has destroyed any gift he's ever given me now I don't even want presents on my birthday because I know he will destroy them on the next fight. I wont accept his behaviour or tolerate his abuse which is what makes it worse.
When he starts with his aggression I leave which makes it worse and he calls me names and tells me I'm running away. While I'm packing the car with my kids he screams abuse at us. I have 3 kids the youngest is 6 and when he gets like that I don't want to to hear the names he calls me and I dont want my kids to witness the abuse. I think im being a responsible mother. His kids live with their mother and new step father who isnt nice to them but certainly isn't abusive and my ex partner gets so angry his kids have to endure that but what he puts mine through is so much worse. He will openly say how upset he is at how his kids are being treated and I am in disbelief because he has treated mine so much worse and doesn't see any issue with that. If his kids stepdad did what he has done to mine he would probably kill they guy. He sees no fault in his own behaviour but will openly criticise anyone else doing that.
I want to know from a mens perspective is he aware of what he is doing doing or does he actually believe what he says and that it's my fault. I think he's a bully and wants a woman who won't question him and someone he can control. He thinks he's done nothing wrong.
I've read this whole thread, and I can see that you've gotten out. Congrats!
Second of all, when you're dealing with abuse, you really can't ask for a "man's perspective" about an abusive man's behavior. An abusive partner and a non-abusive partner are two different animals.
The average Joe isn't abusive, and would therefore have a completely different value/belief system than an abuser.
If you want more insight into the mind of abusers, consider reading the book, "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. It is considered to be THE 'bible' for people who are in abusive situations. (you can read it for free in PDF online). It gives tremendous insight into the minds of abusive men (especially).
Do you really believe women who suffer domestic violence enjoy it? There is nothing wrong with reflecting back on the experience I had and wondering what would ever make someone do that. I have left and have moved into a different house and he doesn't know where I am. I am simply trying to make sense of my experience. It is disturbing to think someone could ever think that women in my situation "enjoy it".
I think it is safe to say you will never be able to 'make sense' of someone who is that abusive. You'll think you have it worked out, but it will come back to you to be worked out over and over again.
My ex was just a jerk, not abusive, and after 16 years I still don't feel like I have closure on that relationship. I still dream I am married to him sometimes. I always think if he had just apologized for cheating on me and admitting that he was wrong I would be able to let it go, but I can't. Deep down I still feel guilty for being a bad wife and for all the things he found wrong with me.
Like I say, he was just a jerk, so if I am still that affected after 16 years, how long will it take you to process your abusive experience?
First, I am so sorry you have endured such abuse, and I am relieved that you got away from him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellerebecca6
I want to know from a mens perspective is he aware of what he is doing doing or does he actually believe what he says and that it's my fault. I think he's a bully and wants a woman who won't question him and someone he can control. He thinks he's done nothing wrong.
He's aware of what he's doing.
As others have said, only he is responsible for his actions and behaviors. The things he did to you are not your fault in the least. You did not make him do anything. He chose to do it.
He is an abusive man, and abusers love to blame the people they abuse. I almost didn't read your whole post because I knew from the first two lines that there would be an account of domestic violence and blame to follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellerebecca6
I have left and live in my own house and he doesn't know where I am. Saying I am a bad mother is a pretty horrible thing to say to someone in my situation. I am simply trying to make sense of what happened to me. A lot of women who suffer domestic violence don't leave immediately. It doesn't make them bad mothers.
Oh, how I hate it when people say things like that to women whose partners or spouses were abusers. There are many, many reasons people stay in abusive relationships. Sometimes the partner's family is a source of childcare they couldn't otherwise afford. Sometimes they do not have job skills or education and the abuser provides the roof over their head and the food in their stomach. Sometimes they enter the relationship with low self-esteem from prior abuse or trauma at the hands of other people. Sometimes they have physical disabilities and cannot manage alone but also have no family or friends to support them. Sometimes there is substance use involved. Sometimes they have nowhere to go. Sometimes it is fear: Fear the abuser will carry out threats, fear the abuser will find them and kill them, fear of how society will see them. The reasons people stay with abusive partners are very complex and so the outcomes are very complex.
It is VERY unfair and lacking in compassion to say things like you are not a good mother. Further, people saying such things create and enforce exactly the kind of stigma that keeps people who are being abused from seeking help, or even letting others know what is happening. It is absolutely cruel to shame people that way. Truly, I think people who say things like that need to do some self-examination to find out why they feel compelled to judge and cause further emotional harm to people who are already suffering. There is a maliciousness to that kind of commentary that quite frankly is just more abuse heaped upon the person who has already endured so much.
Here's the thing: You DID leave. You left when you were ready and able to. That it was not on someone else's timeline of how soon you should have left is irrelevant. You did it, and that is what is matters now.
All of that said, I do hope you have access to a good counselor. Even though you are no longer in an abusive situation, this is the kind of thing that can and does come back at people with delayed PTSD and so on, sometimes a few years later. It also couldn't hurt to process your experiences in a safe environment with a professional who knows not to judge you and whose main focus is helping you help yourself through all of this. (I don't consider message boards safe, and the people telling you that you are a bad mother are why.) I also suggest counseling for your children. Seeing you harmed is traumatic for them and studies show that this kind of "adverse childhood experience" has repercussions on mental health and wellbeing well into adulthood.
If you're in the USA and don't know where to get started, the National Domestic Violence Hotline can help you, 24-7. You can call 800-799-7233, Chat at http://thehotline.org, or text "START" to 88788.
I wish you peace.
And to those of you who said this woman is not a good mother, told her she was probably enjoying it, and so on, your comments are horrible and a disgrace. Did you never learn basic human civility and decency such that if you cannot say something supportive to someone who is in great pain then you keep your mouth shut? Shame on YOU.
I think it is safe to say you will never be able to 'make sense' of someone who is that abusive. You'll think you have it worked out, but it will come back to you to be worked out over and over again.
My ex was just a jerk, not abusive, and after 16 years I still don't feel like I have closure on that relationship. I still dream I am married to him sometimes. I always think if he had just apologized for cheating on me and admitting that he was wrong I would be able to let it go, but I can't. Deep down I still feel guilty for being a bad wife and for all the things he found wrong with me.
Like I say, he was just a jerk, so if I am still that affected after 16 years, how long will it take you to process your abusive experience?
Wow, I have those dreams, too! Just that my ex is in them and he's still in the role of my husband in them. Usually we are somewhere doing something pretty mundane, my sleeping brain just decided to cast him in the story it was telling itself. But I always have this "Ugh /sigh...dammit" feeling when I wake up.
I just started reading the book recommended by Mink57 ("Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft) and I am having a lot of wide eyed "holy crap" moments, I can tell you, seeing things that my ex did spoken so clearly about.
Situations like this...they make you doubt your own sanity sometimes. You have to remind yourself of the bad behaviors because he's got a completely different narrative of what happened. My ex told me lies about his second wife (I was his third) and later I got in touch with her and found out he'd done a lot of the same things to her that he'd done to me. I would not have believed it in the beginning of our relationship, he had me convinced she was crazy and mean and not to be believed, but to be avoided. He tells himself, our kids, and our former mutual friends, his own version of events. But I remember things very differently. And there are times that I'm like "who says that my version is the truth? Maybe I am the one who was abusive?" It really is hard to tell up from down sometimes. Then I remember some of the specific instances.... And I'm like, no. No. I was not a perfect wife, but I was NOT the abuser. And I see myself, reminding me and others of that, in the OP as she describes the specific acts of abuse. I don't know how many times on City Data forums I have trotted out a thing or two about specific acts he did, because I don't want to just be some dramatic person with a "crazy ex" like "yeah right, you're the crazy one..." It's just incredible how much harder it is to stand in that position, than anyone who has never suffered it could even understand.
And another thing that I've had to make peace with, probably one of the hardest things...
There were, at other times, ways in which he showed me love, that no one else has ever done and no one will likely ever do again. I have avoidant tendencies, when I feel hurt or confused or even just depressed or disconnected, I will often go away from other people and hide. Deep in my heart I always wish someone would come looking for me, and the fact that no one does is confirmation of whatever particular funk I'm in at that moment. Childhood stuff, obviously. But one person came and found me when I did that. Only one, ever. In the early days when he was pursuing me (love bombing me)...my ex did. He was always able to find me when I vanished.
Well I guess, seen a different way, he was kinda stalking me actually. Now that I take several big steps back and think about it...that was not a good thing. LOL! "I was today years old when I realized that thing that made me feel so loved was actually stalking." I'm seriously laughing right now, at myself. Whoo! The work just never ceases I swear to god.
But like I think that abused people sometimes get turned inside out a little about stuff like this. The person did something at times that made you feel so special and so loved. And it's not that I wish I could be back with him, it's that I feel extra hurt that the only way I could get love like that, is packaged with so much HURT. What does that say about me? About my value, and what I deserve?
These are all the kinds of things that a person's gotta deal with as they get away from an abuser.
And the reason I am putting all this crap here, is not to hijack the thread onto my own stuff, but to draw parallels, because the OP is gonna have to process through all of this. I want her to know that there are a lot of common thought processes that those of us who escape abuse need to get through. That she isn't alone, nor is anyone else who has gone through it. And it can take years. Doesn't mean, though, that it will be years before you'll be happy, or able to have a healthy relationship! Just years to properly work through the stuff that these experiences put into your head.
Anyways. That book is really good so far. Here's a pdf of it that I found in the first couple results from a Google search. Thanks Mink57!
It is of the utmost importance if you're a woman and you have children and your interview abusive relationship to get the hell out of that relationship.
If not for you for your children and for their future. If the only relationships they see their mother in are abusive and their little boys they're going to grow up to abuse their girlfriends or wives because children learn through example. If they're little girls they're going to grow up to be abused because again children learn through example.
I would say this goes for men as well. It's just a lot of the times it gets overlooked because people don't seem to think women abusing men is a legitimate thing.
If you find yourself getting your relationships with these kind of guys meaning it's happened more than once you need to find out why it is you feel attracted to abusers and do everything in your power to avoid them in the future.
I'm only responding to this post because domestic abuse and violence is one of my "causes." My best friend in my teen years married her high school sweetheart less than a year after high school graduation. I got her a job after my freshman year of college so I saw her a lot that summer. She openly spoke of the physical abuse from her husband. I saw the bruises. My young 19 year old self tried to encourage her to leave. She didn't leave him for decades. I've personally known other women that were being abused.
She asked and I answered. I can pretty confidently say I do not know anybody like that so I cannot relate to that line of thinking.
So ... your friend's husband. He was able to stay out of jail and keep a job.
Whose FAULT is that? How do sick people like that even keep employment? It's hard enough for a pansy like me...
How does a guy who cornholes little kids become a college football coach who makes millions of dollars? Whose fault is that? And he had a wife and six kids.
Oh, another thing to toss out there for the OP to be aware of, as well as anyone else who may deal with abuse and see this thread at some point. There is a common tactic of abusers that has its own acronym now.
DARVO
Deny
Attack
Reverse Victim & Offender
I won't go into much more detail because you can Google up the acronym and get plenty, but it is very easily recognizable when abusers are called out or confronted on their behavior, they often do this.
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