Rant: how are you expected to find someone if dating apps don’t work and it’s hard to make friends?!
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I’m not sure the top 10% of males stuff is total gibberish. As I took my nightly walk I thought what it is that most people want more than anything in life and that’s love. Then as I thought about people/life I had the thought that -*women are given love and men have to earn it*.
Little girls are usually showered with love and praise…and that love and praise often intensifies as they get older. They are still given love and praise of parents/grandparents/siblings but then they start getting it from men…but even more intensely. Men on the other hand are given love (possibly a little less) as small children but as they age they increasingly have to earn love in some way. That could be through athletic or academic achievement or something similar. As they age it could be through working hard enough to obtain positions of prestige and power. For a lot of more average men though, love slowly starts to fade especially as parents pass away and family spreads out. The only men that are given love well into adulthood are those that may be incredibly attractive or have some very unique/rare talent like being able to throw a 95 mph fastball…some may say these men that easily obtain love/praise represent something like 10% of men.
Can you unpack this idea a little more? In what ways do you think guys need to earn love?
I just gotta say first to the whole "girls get showered with love and boys have to earn it"... Just. Again. Everybody's got a story, dude. There are as many as there are human beings to live them. The way I saw it, boys are showered with love (from a Mom) and girls (me) get used (by Mom) as labor and have to shut up and deal with any treatment. Boys can run and yell and be children. Girls have to be small adults. As an oldest child and daughter, I could not even cry when terrified without getting hit for it. So I'll be totally open and frank when I say I'm feeling more than a little bit, "don't you dare" about your comment there, GoAmericaGo! But that is personal. And ya know, I've seen girls treated like Princesses, too. And I've seen boys treated in different ways, good and bad.
So I just don't get with the "one experience for males, this other experience for females" thing. We don't get sorted into bins and have unique stock experiences because of our gender. Like not even going into all the "gender is a construct" philosophy floating about in the world these days... Just saying what I say, which is that we are PEOPLE having whatever experience we're having.
Some people get damn lucky and have family around that loves them, that lets them have a childhood yet manages to also let them have the space to learn things we need to... But I dunno about you, I don't know many people who would say that they had perfect parents, or a perfect childhood. I sure as hell did not.
So here we are. Making this crap up as we go. Living our lives. Learning from our experiences. Pulling back from the hot stoves we've touched.
Like I can say that in my youth there was a very sweet man who, I found out later when it was too late, had an attraction to me. I was actually pretty angry when I found out, because I could have dodged a lot of pain if I'd ended up with him instead, and he revealed this fact at the point where I was pregnant for the first time and just realized I was in BIG trouble with a bad partner who was likely to make my life very difficult. But Mr. Nice Guy NEVER expressed his interest. He acted, if anything, even less friendly than most of our friends. I thought of him as just...an acquaintance, part of the group... He did not go out of his way to be near me, talk to me one on one, or let me know in any way that he was into me. I assumed I wasn't his type, I mistook his shyness for coolness. And I'm not trying to push myself on somebody who doesn't seem to even want me around. I would have LOVED to have been with him. But yeah, by all means, behave as though you DON'T like me due to your nerves and shyness, and wait until not only have I ended up with the abuser who pursued me but hell, hold off until I'm pregnant and not really able to just easily leave the guy.
Man. That's just freaking great.
I mean, I wasn't even getting the vibe that dude particularly wanted to be my friend, and I gave him plenty of opportunities to indicate otherwise. I don't understand how I was SUPPOSED to react to that? Chase him around yelling, "I will date you whether you like it or not!" Catch him with a net? What? So. Yeah. I ended up with the guy who wasn't afraid to let me know what was on his mind. And thus began 18 years of hell. Well, ya can't say I didn't pay for it.
We're not mind readers, guys. Seriously. He didn't need to be Rico Suave with a pickup line or a tattoo or a motorcycle, he just needed to...not act like he was trying to shrink into the woodwork and get away from me, any time I was near. Show a little interest, perhaps a bit of desire. Shelato, I'm pretty sure we've talked about that book, "Come As You Are" and women being somewhat more likely to have reactive, rather than spontaneous desire... So a guy's got to give us a little nudge, something to react to, sometimes.
Though, certainly, yes, I do think that women could take a somewhat more active role in the process and I will be just as quick to tell a woman who is hiding with her face glued to her cell phone, that she's really shutting out any opportunities by being so closed off. So...once AGAIN...things come back to just people, humans, and our behavior. And whether it serves us, or it does not.
This could be somewhat true also. I’ve heard people say that in general boys/men who aren’t super attractive/athletic/talented aren’t cared about once they get into the world as adults. Men are sorta thought of as disposable and they are even worse — weak, if they show weakness. Perhaps normie men after childhood are just expected to suck it up (whatever happens in life) and move on. Often if they complain or show weakness it’s because something is wrong with them. It seems women have a much sturdier support structure and can generally feel a sense of value for simply being a woman.
I agree I do think showing any insecurities or weakness as a Man especially when it comes to dating is looked upon with disdain and anger and women are treated with more empathy when it comes to that stuff. you can see it here and the differences when a man talks about insecurity from never gotten dates by a certain age opposed to a women in the same boat. Totally different reactions.
Wheter consciously or subconsciously there is a feeling a man should never be weak or insecure where with women it’s expected
I agree I do think showing any insecurities or weakness as a Man especially when it comes to dating is looked upon with disdain and anger and women are treated with more empathy when it comes to that stuff. you can see it here and the differences when a man talks about insecurity from never gotten dates by a certain age opposed to a women in the same boat. Totally different reactions.
Wheter consciously or subconsciously there is a feeling a man should never be weak or insecure where with women it’s expected
Every man has either experienced or knows another man who, upon opening up to his SO, has watched her instantly lose attraction to him. Don’t be suckered into “opening up.” Women say they want men to express their feelings but the reality is they don’t. You’re supposed to be her solid rock so she can feel free to be insecure and hang onto you, not the other way around
I agree I do think showing any insecurities or weakness as a Man especially when it comes to dating is looked upon with disdain and anger and women are treated with more empathy when it comes to that stuff. you can see it here and the differences when a man talks about insecurity from never gotten dates by a certain age opposed to a women in the same boat. Totally different reactions.
Whether consciously or subconsciously there is a feeling a man should never be weak or insecure where with women it’s expected
I acknowledge that self-confidence is a factor in attractiveness. What women are looking for are guys who can be reliable boyfriends/ possible future husbands. If you are sitting around berating yourself and there is some other guy willing to step up to address a problem, yes that other guy will be perceived as more competent and desirable as boyfriend. So I acknowledge that point somewhat.
When you see hear a woman and she is asking you if this dress makes her look fat, does that make you feel more or less attracted to her? I just don't think insecurity is attractive in either gender.
At the same time though, a healthy relationship is an exchange of care. At times we all feel a little insecure and so when past girlfriends have asked me whether they look good in the dress, I will assure them with you know you are going to be stealing all of the attention from the bride or some other statement to make them feel good and or laugh. But in a relationship, the woman you are dating is going to do the same thing, so if you are nervous about a presentation at work, your girlfriend will be telling you about how great she knows you are going to do.
So this exchange of care in a healthy relationship isn't gendered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin
Every man has either experienced or knows another man who, upon opening up to his SO, has watched her instantly lose attraction to him. Don’t be suckered into “opening up.” Women say they want men to express their feelings but the reality is they don’t. You’re supposed to be her solid rock so she can feel free to be insecure and hang onto you, not the other way around
Yes feelings need to be reciprocated to fall in love. To fall in love, you have to open your heart and sometimes when you open your heart to some woman and it's not reciprocated, well that does suck. But no woman is going to open her heart to you either if you aren't willing to open your heart either as well.
So swallowing your feelings is kind of a maladaptive life strategy.
Again, I am not trying to put you down nor make you feel bad, but if you actually want to emotionally connect with women, you have to be emotionally honest with them and yourself about your feelings. That is when women can start to actually relate and get closer to you. But if you are always pushing women away, they aren't going to get close to you.
Like I can say that in my youth there was a very sweet man who, I found out later when it was too late, had an attraction to me. I was actually pretty angry when I found out, because I could have dodged a lot of pain if I'd ended up with him instead, and he revealed this fact at the point where I was pregnant for the first time and just realized I was in BIG trouble with a bad partner who was likely to make my life very difficult. But Mr. Nice Guy NEVER expressed his interest. He acted, if anything, even less friendly than most of our friends. I thought of him as just...an acquaintance, part of the group... He did not go out of his way to be near me, talk to me one on one, or let me know in any way that he was into me. I assumed I wasn't his type, I mistook his shyness for coolness. And I'm not trying to push myself on somebody who doesn't seem to even want me around. I would have LOVED to have been with him. But yeah, by all means, behave as though you DON'T like me due to your nerves and shyness, and wait until not only have I ended up with the abuser who pursued me but hell, hold off until I'm pregnant and not really able to just easily leave the guy.
Man. That's just freaking great.
I mean, I wasn't even getting the vibe that dude particularly wanted to be my friend, and I gave him plenty of opportunities to indicate otherwise. I don't understand how I was SUPPOSED to react to that? Chase him around yelling, "I will date you whether you like it or not!" Catch him with a net? What? So. Yeah. I ended up with the guy who wasn't afraid to let me know what was on his mind. And thus began 18 years of hell. Well, ya can't say I didn't pay for it.
We're not mind readers, guys. Seriously. He didn't need to be Rico Suave with a pickup line or a tattoo or a motorcycle, he just needed to...not act like he was trying to shrink into the woodwork and get away from me, any time I was near. Show a little interest, perhaps a bit of desire. Shelato, I'm pretty sure we've talked about that book, "Come As You Are" and women being somewhat more likely to have reactive, rather than spontaneous desire... So a guy's got to give us a little nudge, something to react to, sometimes.
Though, certainly, yes, I do think that women could take a somewhat more active role in the process and I will be just as quick to tell a woman who is hiding with her face glued to her cell phone, that she's really shutting out any opportunities by being so closed off. So...once AGAIN...things come back to just people, humans, and our behavior. And whether it serves us, or it does not.
Wonder if he was an ISFP? Because that is one of the hallmarks of the ISFP - not showing interest in anyone, keeping the cards close to the chest, so to speak. I should know as I am one.
With me, I heard 'no' EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I initiated. Every time... and for some of the most insane/ridiculous 'reasons'. So I quit. Cold turkey. No more hearing 'no' from anyone. Done.
We are not a common type and the so-called 'rules' might as well be chucked into the trash when dealing with us. LOL.
To wit: 'E' would absolutely NOT be with me if she didn't reach out. Full stop.
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