Where are the domesticated ladies? (girlfriend, marriage, girl, husbands)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And most men did their own dishes before getting married but many seem to expect their wives to do it for them once married. We're not maids.
If both men and women did their dishes and laundry before getting married, what's wrong with both of them doing it after they're married?
BTW, doing dishes, laundry and cleaning up after myself is a lot easier than doing it for more than one person. Why should my work load go up because I got married?
if you make more $$ than I do, then I'll do the crap
if you make more $$ than I do, then I'll do the crap
if I make more $$ than you, then stop *****ing
What? If she earns less than you she has to clean up after you? What kind of nonsense is that?
BTW, I made almost twice what my husband did for 18 years. The balance of who did what around the house didn't change when my income was reduced to below his except for when I was unemployed. When I was home all day, I did all the housework, errands and cleaning. That was only fair since I was home all day, however, if both parties work full time jobs, it falls equally on both parties to do the housework. Earning potential has nothing to do with that. Hours worked do.
Right now, I earn less than half of what my husband does but work half again as many hours. He does all the cooking and shopping and some of the cleaning. I do the laundry and make sure he has a clean surface to cook on in the kitchen . The rest, unecessary stuff, just waits until I find time for it. It's not a matter of who makes how much but rather who has the time. The week after next is spring break for me. I'll be doing my spring cleaning.
I'd like to ask a side question. Not whre are the domesticated (I hate that term because it sounds like we're being compared to domesticated animals) ladies but is there a place in society for domesticated women (or men) anymore?
I don't think there is. There was a time where a woman at home was necessary to make it. Everything was cooked from scratch, vegetables and fruits canned in the summer/fall so you could eat during the winter. Meats had to be cured, bread baked and clothes washed by hand, hung to dry and ironed. Go back far enough and she made her own candles/oil for lamps. There was a time when the value of a house spouse (I guess it could have been a man) coudln't be measured. You simply didn't make it without someone, literally, keeping the home fires burning.
Today, it's really not tough to make it without a house spouse. In fact, it's doable to do it all yourself without a spouse. Might be one of the reasons for our high divorce rate. We really don't need a spouse to keep house and raise our kids while we go out and hunt to put food on the table. Most of what our ancesters did is done for us for a moderate price.
We don't hunt, grow/can our own vegetables, bake our own breads...we go to the grocery store. We don't raise cattle, slaughter our own animals and cure the meat, we go to the butcher and fill our freezer. We don't make our own clothes out of yarn/thread we spun ourselves, we go to the mall and buy clothes. We don't wash clothes on a washboard, hang them to dry and iron everything, we have machines to wash and dry and permanent press fabrics. Add to this list, cars so we don't have to walk to market, no wax floors (I remember helping grandma wax hers and it was a PITA that took half the day), dishwashers, vaccuum cleaners and grandma's biggie, indoor plumbing. She thought indoor plumbing was the best modern convenience. She grew up on a farm where she had to draw water from a well and use an outhouse.
So why do we still have "domesticated ladies" in our society? What is their purpose? They seem like a throwback to a bygone era. We don't have the work my grandmother or her grandmother had anymore. We don't raise as many kids as they did thanks to birth control. Compared to grandma's day, being a domesticated partner today would be like permanent vacation. I'm curious as to what men (or women) who want a domesticated partner see as the value of having one. Is it just you avoiding having to do anything when you get home from work? Or is it deeper like a control issue?
Seriously, I see no purpose in domesticated partners. Not in this day and age when you can clean a house in half a day and buy the services that domesticated partners had to provide in the past. Today the only reason to make your own clothes is you like to sew. Grandma had to.
Just wanted to add, I can see value if you have a high powered career and cannot be involved with taking care of life yourself. Then, if you want the whole package, you would need someone at home taking care of her/his share and yours too. For most families, I don't see the value. When I look around, I see families living pretty much the same lifestyle regardless of whether or not one or both work for a living. And, yeah, it's usually the woman doing most of the housework, sigh. You guys really need to pick up the slack. I'll have to see if I can find it but I read an article not too long ago that had women doing twice the housework as men when both worked for a living. She was doing 14 hours a week and he was doing 7.
You know, I wonder what my grandmother would have done with all her extra time if her work load had been reduced to a mere 21 hours a week?
I'd like to ask a side question. Not whre are the domesticated (I hate that term because it sounds like we're being compared to domesticated animals) ladies but is there a place in society for domesticated women anymore?
I don't think there is. There was a time where a woman at home was necessary to make it. Everything was cooked from scratch, vegetables and fruits canned in the summer/fall so you could eat during the winter. Meats had to be cured, bread baked and clothes washed by hand, hung to dry and ironed. Go back far enough and she made her own candles/oil for lamps. There was a time when the value of a house spouse (I guess it could have been a man) coudln't be measured. You simply didn't make it without someone, literally, keeping the home fires burning.
Today, it's really not tough to make it without a house spouse. In fact, it's doable to do it all yourself without a spouse. Might be one of the reasons for our high divorce rate. We really don't need a spouse to keep house and raise our kids while we go out and hunt to put food on the table. Most of what our ancesters did is done for us for a moderate price.
We don't hunt, grow/can our own vegetables, bake our own breads...we go to the grocery store. We don't raise cattle, slaughter our own animals and cure the meat, we go to the butcher and fill our freezer. We don't make our own clothes out of yard/thred we spun ourselves, we go to the mall and buy clothes. We don't wash clothes on a washboard, hang them to dry and iron everything, we have machines to wash and dry and permanent press fabrics. Add to this list, cars so we don't have to walk to market, no wax floors (I remember helping grandma wax hers and it was a PITA that took half the day), dishwashers, vaccuum cleaners and grandma's biggie, indoor plumbing. She thought indoor plumbing was the best modern convenience. She grew up on a farm where she had to draw water from a well and use an outhouse.
So why do we still have "domesticated ladies" in our society? What is their purpose? They seem like a throwback to a bygone era. We don't have the work my grandmother or her grandmother had anymore. We don't raise as many kids as they did thanks to birth control. Compared to grandma's day, being a domesticated partner today would be like permanent vacation. I'm curious as to what men (or women) who want a domesticated partner see as the value of having one. Is it just you avoiding having to do anything when you get home from work? Or is it deeper like a control issue?
Seriously, I see no purpose in domesticated partners. Not in this day and age when you can clean a house in half a day and buy the services that domesticated partners had to provide in the past. Today the only reason to make your own clothes is you like to sew. Grandma had to.
You would need to define your "domesticated lady". The OP mentioned ironing and cooking from scratch, both of which I do. But frankly, I sure don't consider myself "domesticated". Not even close. But some people, simply because I bake from scratch, would use that description. I love to bake my own bread (in a breadmaker of course), but hell, even the 55 year old married guy that I work with - he bakes HIS own bread too. It simply tastes better, and it's a lovely smell to wake up to. I have always enjoyed cooking and baking, and frankly, with today's economy, more and more people are opting to eat in, rather than out. So cooking skills are improving these days, not on the decline.
There are still many many tasks needed to keep a home running today, you can call it domestic work, housekeeping, whatever, but they are things that have to be done. Technology has certainly changed the way we accomplish them, but the need remains. Same with outside the home, and the mechanics of the home. The need is still there...we might do it ourselves, or hire someone, but we have only so much time, so it's a matter of priorities, and how you want to spend the time you have. I am perfectly capable of cleaning my home, but I have a large yard, and I would much rather spend my time outside working there. Also I have an exercise regimen that consumes a good amount of time as well. And beyond all that, I have a son that takes top priority. So for me, having a cleaning lady mean just one less thing for me to worry about.
It's really all a matter of priorities...so many more choices today...and only the same 24 hours.
I like doing all those things, but I see them as an outlet for creativity...some women don't like this sort of thing, and so be it.
Neither my daughter or 2 DIL's cook or iron much, but they actually have marketable skills, so I guess it's a trade off. I do feel sorry for children who don't know what decent food is, though.
I did that domesticated stuff for years and the first time my husband complained about the way his shirt was ironed, he had to do it himself and did for years. He apparently never learned b/c he never had anything good to say about my cooking. . . (and I'm a pretty good cook) If you find one of these jewels OP, you'd better express your appreciation regularly or you will lose what you have. Now I only cook when I want to, the husband is out of my life, and I still iron my clothes b/c I don't have a dryer and I'm so warped I actually like to iron and vacuum and wash dishes by hand.
You would need to define your "domesticated lady". The OP mentioned ironing and cooking from scratch, both of which I do. But frankly, I sure don't consider myself "domesticated". Not even close. But some people, simply because I bake from scratch, would use that description. I love to bake my own bread (in a breadmaker of course), but hell, even the 55 year old married guy that I work with - he bakes HIS own bread too. It simply tastes better, and it's a lovely smell to wake up to. I have always enjoyed cooking and baking, and frankly, with today's economy, more and more people are opting to eat in, rather than out. So cooking skills are improving these days, not on the decline.
There are still many many tasks needed to keep a home running today, you can call it domestic work, housekeeping, whatever, but they are things that have to be done. Technology has certainly changed the way we accomplish them, but the need remains. Same with outside the home, and the mechanics of the home. The need is still there...we might do it ourselves, or hire someone, but we have only so much time, so it's a matter of priorities, and how you want to spend the time you have. I am perfectly capable of cleaning my home, but I have a large yard, and I would much rather spend my time outside working there. Also I have an exercise regimen that consumes a good amount of time as well. And beyond all that, I have a son that takes top priority. So for me, having a cleaning lady mean just one less thing for me to worry about.
It's really all a matter of priorities...so many more choices today...and only the same 24 hours.
That's the point. We have the same 24 hours a day our grandmothers had but a lot less to put in it.
My grandmother once added up everything she did as a young mother and came up with 87 hours a week of work before she changed the first diaper or wiped the first snotty nose. Most of that work has been removed from our lives thanks to modern conveniences and the ability to buy things we had to make for ourselves before. The need today is for about 25 hours of work a week at home not 87 like my grandmother. With sixty some extra hours a week, what's the attraction to being domesticated? What's the benefit in being domesticated?
As to our children being first priority, you can do that too. Thanks to all of our modern conviences, today's full time working mom spends more time with her kids than a 1950's stay at home mom did. We've come a long way.
Realistically, if I use 40 of my extra 60 hours a week for a full time job, I still have 20 extra for hobbies, like baking from scratch if I wish or just spending with my kids. Or better yet, hire a housekeeper and have even more. That's my particular favorite, lol. The amount of free time I had when I worked as an engineer, with small children when I had a housekeeper was amazing. I miss those days.
To me, the only attraction to a house spouse would be coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table but I can hire a house keeper for $125/week (small house) and pick up dinner on the way home so it's easily and cheaply replaced. Other than that, I don't see the attraction. Children do not turn out differently based on their parents working status so it's not for the kids. I can't see any benefit over a good day care provider and a housekeeper let alone enough benefit to forego the second spouses income and the real improvements that can bring to the family.
For most of our marriage, we could have lived off of my income but my husband's income paid for things like music/dance lessons (dance fizzled out but I have one very musically talented dd), being able to drive newer/safer cars, a non financially stressed lifestyle and just having the money to support organizations we want to support. Now it's flipped. We could live off of my husband's salary and mine pays for the extras. While I do like coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table, it's just not worth giving up what that second income can give to our family to have that luxury.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 04-04-2009 at 08:55 AM..
I did that domesticated stuff for years and the first time my husband complained about the way his shirt was ironed, he had to do it himself and did for years. He apparently never learned b/c he never had anything good to say about my cooking. . . (and I'm a pretty good cook) If you find one of these jewels OP, you'd better express your appreciation regularly or you will lose what you have. Now I only cook when I want to, the husband is out of my life, and I still iron my clothes b/c I don't have a dryer and I'm so warped I actually like to iron and vacuum and wash dishes by hand.
Liking ironing is really warped . That's something I never got the hang of. My husband does his own ironing. I don't do it right, according to him, so he does it himself. He doesn't do much. Most of his stuff is permanent press. Funny how permanent press was no longer a bad word when HE started doing his own ironing,
With sixty some extra hours a week, what's the attraction to being domesticated? What's the benefit in being domesticated?
I'm having a hard time with using that term. "Domesticated" means ...not working outside of the home - taking care of the home is your main "job" so to speak. Can we agree on that as a definition? If so, then I think there are many women that still do enjoy that...but certainly less, many less, than there used to be. And the reason, IMO, is because of the choices available today. But for me to say that others should prefer my lifestyle...well that's just silly, and a bit egocentric. They may not understand and agree with my reasons, or yours, any more than we understand and agree with theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
To me, the only attraction to a house spouse would be coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table but I can hire a house keeper for $125/week (small house) and pick up dinner on the way home so it's easily and cheaply replaced. Other than that, I don't see the attraction. Children do not turn out differently based on their parents working status so it's not for the kids. I can't see any benefit over a good day care provider and a housekeeper let alone enough benefit to forego the second spouses income and the real improvements that can bring to the family.
For most of our marriage, we could have lived off of my income but my husband's income paid for things like music/dance lessons (dance fizzled out but I have one very musically talented dd), being able to drive newer/safer cars, a non financially stressed lifestyle and just having the money to support organizations we want to support. Now it's flipped. We could live off of my husband's salary and mine pays for the extras. While I do like coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table, it's just not worth giving up what that second income can give to our family to have that luxury.
I think most view it as more than "a clean house and dinner". For one thing, I rarely, if ever, stop and "pick up dinner on the way home". My son much prefers my cooking, and the value/nutrition of what is available in the restaurants is so poor I simply choose to forgo that option. You may find this hard to believe, but my son is 16, and to this day, I make his lunch for him to take to school. At HIS request. (I've even had his friends send money home with him for me to make them an extra sandwich! Poor kids! )
Dropping off and picking up dry cleaning, someone to be home when the repairman comes (I hate burning leave time for that!!) Someone with a second car to take me to work when mine is in the shop, someone to work on all those projects on my "do list"...someone to run all those errands that I never seem to have all the time for...gosh I can think of a LOT of benefits.
I've often said that I need a wife!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. The rest, unecessary stuff, just waits until I find time for it. It's not a matter of who makes how much but rather who has the time. The week after next is spring break for me. I'll be doing my spring cleaning.
"Domesticated" means ...not working outside of the home - taking care of the home is your main "job" so to speak. Can we agree on that as a definition? If so, then I think there are many women that still do enjoy that...but certainly less, many less, than there used to be. And the reason, IMO, is because of the choices available today. But for me to say that others should prefer my lifestyle...well that's just silly, and a bit egocentric. They may not understand and agree with my reasons, or yours, any more than we understand and agree with theirs.
