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I equate design with being planned. Used against the word nature it implies that it was God's intention, which to an atheist would be the same thing as nature.
Just my personal thoughts on this. After having dated an alpha male in the past, I know exactly what smartalx is saying. Basically we would both come to decisions together. If we had to talk till our throats went dry, that is what we would do. Usually, due to my immaturity at the time, I thought I always had all the answers and that I was always right. But so much talking, would usually help me understand where I was making wrong decisions. As an alpha male, he was very, very patient with me. He made sure I understood why he thought different than I. He never forced his decisions on me. He would simply explain. And if I didn't get it, or I felt that he didn't get it, we would talk for hours and sometimes days, until one of us convinced the other of the solution.
I would explain my thoughts, and then he would ask me questions on why I thought the way I did, then I would listen to his side and ask him why he thought like that and back and forth until the clouds parted and the sun shone through. One of us would usually say "I agree with what you're saying".
Many couples don't do this, they want to make a decision where the only ones that benefit are themselves. They say "I am an individual, I don't need anyone's permission to do anything", because they see it as a matter of permission and that boils their blood. But if they saw it for what it really is, a partnership, they would then try to reach an agreement. Many times couples will just say "I'm going to do this weather he/she likes it". But that is incorrect , since a marriage is not about ignoring the other person and then wondering why he or she is always mad at you. If you are the kind of person that ignores your partners wishes, then you shouldn't be dating, since you are not mature enough to take on that responsibility. You should be alone and nobody will say no to any of your wishes.
If you are that kind of person, I am not looking down on you, since I was always that person too. I was very immature and self-centered and expected men to just give in to my wishes or he could go somewhere else and leave me alone. I don't know why, but nobody had ever teached me the proper way of being in a relationship.
Since I am highly feminine, I do want a man to be in control when things fall apart or are about to fall apart. I don't like to lead. I don't like having a partner that relies on me when we both lose our jobs and we have no money. I want him to take the lead and say "I don't care what I have to do, I won't let you down. I'll get us out of this". If a man wants me to get us out of the problem, I feel like I am mothering him and that to me is a turn off and I would surely look for another who is in control of the situation. That is the kind of man that I prefer. What many in this thread have referred to as an alpha male. A man that takes me into his protection, weather financial or otherwise, and is sensitive enough to always ask my opinion on things, because we are a couple, and decisions should be reached mutually, not alone. Always.
I have though, observed that many men are not alphas. That's why many women do not want a man that is in control. Many women do not want a man to be in control because many have never known a true alpha. Others are dominant women themselves and what they are happy with is a beta male, or someone that is not an alpha. I say, to each his/her own. Somebody has to take the betas.
Many couples don't do this, they want to make a decision where the only ones that benefit are themselves. They say "I am an individual, I don't need anyone's permission to do anything", because they see it as a matter of permission and that boils their blood. But if they saw it for what it really is, a partnership, they would then try to reach an agreement.
A Men!
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Many times couples will just say "I'm going to do this weather he/she likes it". But that is incorrect , since a marriage is not about ignoring the other person and then wondering why he or she is always mad at you. If you are the kind of person that ignores your partners wishes, then you shouldn't be dating, since you are not mature enough to take on that responsibility. You should be alone and nobody will say no to any of your wishes.
Again. A men.
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Since I am highly feminine, I do want a man to be in control when things fall apart or are about to fall apart. I don't like to lead. I don't like having a partner that relies on me when we both lose our jobs and we have no money. I want him to take the lead and say "I don't care what I have to do, I won't let you down. I'll get us out of this". If a man wants me to get us out of the problem, I feel like I am mothering him and that to me is a turn off and I would surely look for another who is in control of the situation. That is the kind of man that I prefer. What many in this thread have referred to as an alpha male. A man that takes me into his protection, weather financial or otherwise, and is sensitive enough to always ask my opinion on things, because we are a couple, and decisions should be reached mutually, not alone. Always.
Do you have a sister?
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I have though, observed that many men are not alphas. That's why many women do not want a man that is in control. Many women do not want a man to be in control because many have never known a true alpha. Others are dominant women themselves and what they are happy with is a beta male, or someone that is not an alpha. I say, to each his/her own. Somebody has to take the betas.
Women in their 20's want men they can mold into something good because it's a challenge. Anything else to them is boring and they like to brag to their friends how they changed said guy. It's like going out into the wilderness and taming a wild horse.
Problem is, large percentage of these GIRLS get kicked in the head by the wild horse they try to tame after years of trying. Horse runs off, never to be seen again.
Girl is left alone crosseyed and confused in her 30's wondering why she didn't just get a pre-tamed one.
He is absolutely right. But not for the reasons you think. It's not that he is selfish, although he might be. It's for the sake of the kids' emotional health. While you put your husband above your kids, he is also supposed to put you above your kids. You CHOSE each other. But more importantly the kids need to see a husband and wife united, as one. Do you ever contradict your husband in front if your kids? Does your husband ever contradict you in front of the kids? You need to demonstrate a united front in front of your kids, as often as possible. Demonstrating unity in marriage also gives kids something to look forward to. But if you put your kids first they won't ever see unity, or if they do you putting them above your spouse dilutes the lesson.
Again, you could be my father! I swear this is the exact stuff that comes out of his mouth. It's weird to be honest.
With that said, I've learned great lessons from both my parents. I learned what not to do and how not to be. By the time my parents were my age, they were both on their second marriage. If people need to declair that water is wet! If that is their life revelation, well, it's no surprise that divorce statistics are what they are.
Frankly, I don't believe most people should marry. It's a big responsibility. And the shallowness of gender roles, wrought in insecurity and lack of indivdual accomplishment, will not aid in riding two people out through thick and thin. At least, not if it isn't forced.
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Naturally. If anything, a marriage is about selfLESSness.
And therein lies the rub. If this isn't something you've figured out before marriage, you're taking a real risk thinking marriage is going to teach you this life lesson. Imo, this needs to happen while very young. It's cultivated and integrated into a personality by the time we reach young adulthood. Ya know the old saying, 'can't teach an old dog new tricks'. It's so true. If you're 18, 19, 20 and not paying attention, before you know it, you're fixed. The ground work is layed. If the foundation is crappy to begin with, what can you expect to build?
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Those are your identity, not your individualism. That is an ism of the individual... selfishness, which you said you are not. I wonder what affect your individualism or whatever you want to call it is having on your kids. Oh sure I'll bet they appear healthy and successful, but you are teaching them an attitude that is harmful to society, and that is what we traditionalists care about.
Harmful to society? Like ahimsa? Now, go look that word up. Not that you could fathom what it's application is in the day-to-day. I have little doubt that from the time tradionalists wake up to the time they lay their heads down at night that it's all the me-show. Their marriages are an extension of the me-show. That's exactly why they marry-divore, marry-divorce, wash/repeat.
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Because your worldview (which is all too common these days) negatively affects mine. In 100 years, if we are still around, everyone will be singing a different tune, and I assure you it will return to tradition. But that will be due to the damage that individualism has brought.
My worldview affects you? That's hiliarious. What do you think is going to happen? Do you think the traditionalist are gonna pick themselve up by their boot straps, reorganize, and take a way civil liberties? Dream on, buddy. I'm about as worried about it as figuring the middle-aged guy approaching 40 fooling himself into thinking he'll land some hot 25-yr old while play acting julio iglesias. It's not going to happen.
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