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You can tell a lot about the type of lover a man will be by how he pursues. Stingy, selfish men outside the bedroom are also stingy and selfish inside the bedroom. When I dated, I looked for men who can demonstrate to me that they are willing to put my happiness first. If they aren't willing to go out of their way to please me while on a date, that tells me everything I need to know about the type of lover they will be.
Men being confused or not will pay because that is what's expected. Dating is just a label on an activity that involves a man and a woman. I find it odd how women even ask if the dinner they are going to is a date or what. Nope, its JUST A DINNER, enjoy . If I am interested in a girl and I take her to dinner, we will enjoy dinner and each other's company. If it involves a girl who is just a friend, same thing, we will enjoy a dinner and each other's company. It's just that, a dinner. No need to complicate things. Let's go to dinner and enjoy the event.
That would certainly explain your perceptions.
For many people, including myself, dating is move than a label, it is an activity in itself and completely different from doing activities with friends, male or female.
Per the OP. Although, I woulnt make a fuss over planning the date, I think whoever asks for the date should have something in mind they would like to do. I would never ask a guy to go on a date then say, well what do you want to do.
Because it's not romantic, that's why. If my date suggest that we split the check, I rightly assume that he is just not that into me. And if I insist on paying, it is safe to say that I don't wish to establish a romantic relationship with you.
onihc - You don't believe in romance?
What's up Bunny
Of course I believe in romance, check out the picture in my profile . Yup, that's me . Had a little car picnic. Put the top down of my car, played some Michael Buble, waves crashing in the background (parked very close to the beach), candle lights, etc. and a nice relaxed evening. I enjoy planning those kinds of activities and being surprised as well.
I don't necessarily need a restaurant to be romantic. It's me and the other person who decide to make it romantic or not. It's about the couple's attitude to make something romantic, fun, enjoyable, etc.
A guy paying for your dinners/wine is the one that shows he's interested in you. Didn't he already show interest the moment he thought about having dinner with you? See, that is your preference, go for it. It seems like a preference MOST women have.
A woman who decides to make some time, just like me, to do something together is already showing me that she is interested in me just like I am in her. If she wasn't interested in me she simply would not arrange to meet me or I wouldn't agree to meet her or come up with something. I have been lucky enough (for my preference) to meet some girls who on the VERY FIRST DATE pay for our dinner, split, or whoever didn't pay takes the other for some wine or dessert across the street where we had dinner, for example, and so on. Just like two friends would . Something must have been done right for both of us at the end of the night hug each other at the door, goodnight peck, and ask "Hey! What are you doing X day of the week? Let's do something again! " A date where both of us were as involved and into it. Where both were the entertainer and the spectator at the same time. FOR MY PREFERENCE, I find it quite pleasant be it date #1 or date #100.
As I said, it is nothing new to know that men are the ones who USUALLY do the asking. So saying "whoever asks, pays" ends up with men paying. Sure, there may be some women out there who may ask a guy every once in a while but we can't deny the fact that we are still so far from saying that women ask men as much as men ask women out.
That's fine. Men don't have to ask, or they can find women who insist on going Dutch. That's what you do, and it seems to work for you. Many men expect to pay, want to pay, and even are upset when they are not allowed to pay. You can't expect gentlemen to suddenly stop being chivalrous. You don't like the custom--that's fine. It works for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC
Men being confused or not will pay because that is what's expected. Dating is just a label on an activity that involves a man and a woman. I find it odd how women even ask if the dinner they are going to is a date or what. Nope, its JUST A DINNER, enjoy . If I am interested in a girl and I take her to dinner, we will enjoy dinner and each other's company. If it involves a girl who is just a friend, same thing, we will enjoy a dinner and each other's company. It's just that, a dinner. No need to complicate things. Let's go to dinner and enjoy the event.
Things go smooth when you go out with your girlfriends. Things just flow like that. She pays, you pay, both split, both suggest the plan, both arrange to meet or pick each other up, etc. No rules, no standards, etc. It's just as simple as that. Why can't that be applied to a guy and a girl?
Dating and romance are not the same thing as being friends. You and I simply disagree on this topic.
You can tell a lot about the type of lover a man will be by how he pursues. Stingy, selfish men outside the bedroom are also stingy and selfish inside the bedroom. When I dated, I looked for men who can demonstrate to me that they are willing to put my happiness first. If they aren't willing to go out of their way to please me while on a date, that tells me everything I need to know about the type of lover they will be.
True. But that goes both ways. Are you willing to go out of your way to please your man? For the record though I would NEVER let a woman pay for a date, I'm the man and I pay and thats that. If I liked a woman I would go out of my way to please her but I would expect that she tries to please me aswell.
That's fine. Men don't have to ask, or they can find women who insist on going Dutch. That's what you do, and it seems to work for you. Many men expect to pay, want to pay, and even are upset when they are not allowed to pay. You can't expect gentlemen to suddenly stop being chivalrous. You don't like the custom--that's fine. It works for you.
Exactly. I'm a man and I want to pay for the dates, I would never let a woman pay for a date not even half.
If men don't ask, dating would probably cease to exist as women normally won't ask a guy out. So there is not really many choices. Men have to ask, men have to pay. See what I mean when I say that a lot is expected/demanded from men when it comes to dating?
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Many men expect to pay, want to pay, and even are upset when they are not allowed to pay
Which is great for women . Imagine if women insisted after a date to go to a guy's place and do the house chores to the point of getting upset if they are not allowed to do that. That would be quite nice. Is there something that upsets women if they are not allowed to do for their man?
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You can't expect gentlemen to suddenly stop being chivalrous
Chivalry is something that focuses on how well a lady is treated. It is sexist/discriminating unless women offered it as well. I am curious, since no women has responded, what holds you personally to offer chivalry?
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You don't like the custom--that's fine. It works for you
Don't like how its just one-sided. If it was a shared custom, I would love it as much as women do.
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Dating and romance are not the same thing as being friends. You and I simply disagree on this topic.
So dating/romance I guess it involves the man doing it all for the woman to show that he's interested, serious, a man/gentleman, etc. I suppose, right? A woman shoes she's interested and srious by accepting all that, right?
True. But that goes both ways. Are you willing to go out of your way to please your man? For the record though I would NEVER let a woman pay for a date, I'm the man and I pay and thats that. If I liked a woman I would go out of my way to please her but I would expect atleast something back.
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Originally Posted by Makgyver
Exactly. I'm a man and I want to pay for the dates, I would never let a woman pay for a date not even half.
Do you mind if I ask you a few things? They would be better answered from a gentleman's point of view than from a lady's. What do you hope for in return? What does "ladylike behavior" mean to you? Why do you pay for the date? It seems that many posters on here think it's just about women using men to get free food. Do you feel that way? Do you pay for everything, plan the date, pick her up, do all the work, and all she does is sit there and look pretty? How does she treat you?
If men don't ask, dating would probably cease to exist as women normally won't ask a guy out. So there is not really many choices. Men have to ask, men have to pay. See what I mean when I say that a lot is expected/demanded from men when it comes to dating?
No, I don't see what you mean. You have said many times that you date women, go on trips with them, and seem to lead a contented life of casual dating. What is wrong with that? You omitted that part of my quote.
If all men ceased to ask women on dates, I'm sure many women would ask. They don't want to be sitting at home either! You seem to be expecting some kind of revolution (rapid change), when what you are experiencing is evolution (slow change). You are doing your part by doing things how you wish to do them.
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Originally Posted by onihC
Which is great for women . Imagine if women insisted after a date to go to a guy's place and do the house chores to the point of getting upset if they are not allowed to do that. That would be quite nice. Is there something that upsets women if they are not allowed to do for their man?
Again, you equate gentlemanly behavior with paying for things, and ladylike behavior with housework. You have done that several times now.
I asked someone in an earlier post to discuss what "ladylike" means to him. Maybe he will shed some light on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC
Chivalry is something that focuses on how well a lady is treated. It is sexist/discriminating unless women offered it as well. I am curious, since no women has responded, what holds you personally to offer chivalry?
I am not chivalrous because I am not a man. As I said before, the word chivalry derives from cheval, the French word for horse. It refers to knightly behavior and has the synonym of gentlemanly. The female word is ladylike. If you want an egalitarian word, use one.
I don't speak much of religion here. It's a hot subject to say the least. But this sums up how I strive to treat my husband and care for my family.
onihc - dating and courtship are temporary phases of a relationship. While men do most of the courtship work before marriage, the roles of giver/receiver often reverses after marriage.
Once a woman is invested in an established relationship/marriage, they tend to flip roles and become the over-givers. They plan dates, cook meals, care for the home, have babies, take care of dry-cleaning, take kids to the doctor and soccer practice, and more times than not continue their careers.
The courtship period usually last less than two years. Marriage work is forever.
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. Yup, that's me 
