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I think a wise man does his best to walk away from needless confrontation each and every time; no one in his right mind actively seeks out violence.
HOWEVER...
I fully believe that anyone who instigates physical violence (and by instigate I mean starting it, throwing that first punch/slap/kick, the perpetrator of the physical attack) fully NEEDS, just one time in their life, to have the living hell stomped out of them in order to KNOW for the rest of their days what the potential consequence of instigating physical violence is. I believe that regardless of whether it's a man or a woman.
I believe that while FAR from all women do such things as instigate physical violence (just as far from all men do such a thing), those who do have been led by modern society to think they have some sort of inalienable right to perpetrate physical violence on men because "boys aren't supposed to hit girls, not even hit them BACK" -- and I call shenanigans.
Most unfortunately for men we cannot allow ourselves to release the strength which is usually at our disposal because the effect would be devastating, and so we cannot afford to release our tempers, even justifiably.
If any woman attacked me physically I would do my very best to walk away from it. If she refused, I would try to show just enough strength to cow her, let her know just what kind of threat she was walking into. Sadly, women have been spurred on by the media into actually believing much of their own hype when it comes to escalating confrontation. And the law IS on their side.
EDIT: When I say the law is on their side I do NOT mean in how it is written; I mean in how it is practiced.
There is a show on cable, Damages; I've never watched it because I was completely turned off by one of the previews when the show was first being promoted. In this particular preview Glenn Close's character was confronting a man on a set of steps, presumably outside a courthouse. The man was clearly angry and he said to her "If you were a man I'd punch you."
She smugly replies "If you were a man I'd be worried."
My mother-in-law commented happily on that preview, cheering for the cleverness of it. Me, I was thoroughly disgusted and have never bothered checking the show out.
So the question arises: What is a man supposed to do when a woman refuses to leave, as in the OP's scenario?
Let me tell you women who are currently fuming at my words a little something about fighting you probably have NO idea about:
Subduing someone who is struggling is HARD. I don't mean it's a little tough so step it up some, I mean it is downright DIFFICULT. The more you try NOT to hurt them the more difficult it is, and they sense this, struggle even harder because they think they're making headway against you, think you're unable to handle them, never seeming to realize you're merely trying not to hurt them.
If it was just a question of subduing and I didn't CARE whether they got banged up, bruised or even broke a bone or two, then wow, my job just got a LOT easier -- because as difficult as it really is to hold a woman's wrists if she's really, really trying to attack, to stop her from doing harm to either herself OR to me, it's really NOTHING to pick her up, slam her down, drop across her back and pin her arms behind her so she's helpless to do anything but scream. No permanent damage, no killing, certainly no beating -- but she's subdued, right?
So when you're saying to yourselves things like "Golly, you didn't have to use your FULL strength" -- trust me, if we did it would be over; "over" in that not walking around and looking at stuff and breathing anymore kind of "over". Be grateful we didn't.
That's not tough-guy talk and the notion is repulsive to me; but it's still a fact. I don't want to hear a bunch of GARBAGE about how there are women out there who could take the average man or watch this degenerate into a STUPID debate over female boxers vs male boxers.
Seriously, men -- you are as much to blame for the lack of attention this problem has received as are the loud-mouthed women who promote it because you either ignore it OR allow it to degenerate into that kind of crap and THEN you bemoan the fact that "girls can hit us and we can't hit back".
If men want to stop woman-on-man physical violence then what they need to do is step up the very second a woman begins to perpetrate violence and warn her firmly to stop NOW because she doesn't realize what she's about to experience -- and then pack the kids up and LEAVE, call the police and get the matter on record.
And if she presses the attack, escalates it, then do whatever it takes to subdue her, even if it leaves a mark. The instances where more is required... well, you'll have to be the judge of that.
As for the OP's remark that she is now uncomfortable around the man about whom she posted, let me ask you:
Should you be uncomfortable around him?
Or should you be asking yourself -- Wow, how far did that crazy witch go before my friend felt that became necessary? That must have been terrible for him!
But we're biased, you see... We don't think like that because women are the victims.
I'm against it - however, women do need to realize that they must watch their words. It is human nature to get angry at mean-spirited, hurtful statements, and oftentimes the emotional response finds an outlet in violence.
What I'm about to write may get me neg-repped, but I'm going to state it anyway.
I firmly believe that American society today works against men and for women in this regard. Women can get away with things men cannot because they're women. Women will often say things that are extremely piercing because they know if that the man in question reacts in rage by lashing out violently, that he'll pay for it after the cops come. So they push all the way to the line which separates restraint and violence and when men sometimes lose their self-control, the men get punished by the law. Women may get slapped or even punched, and however deplorable and reprehensible this is (and let the record state that I have never struck a woman in my life, besides very light, playful arm-punching which women also hit me with, and in high school), it's probably less of a headache than ending up arrested and incarcerated.
A friend of mine used to work in corporate law. He said he saw incidents that turned him away from his earlier feminist beliefs. He saw senior attorneys literally hurl books at paralegals and at junior lawyers, and even a medium-sized book can cause pain if not a bruise and even bleeding if it strikes one's face or scalp. Strangely, these attorneys were never punished. What would have happened if it had been a senior male attorney hurling a book at a female paralegal or junior lawyer's face or head?
Women, at times, are simply clueless at how men's honor and pride are wounded when women say evil things that tear at their insides. References to family, or to their manhood, can literally break a man's spirit. And I'm not talking about stating their opinions, asserting themselves, or having a voice - in other words, I am ALL for women as men's COMPLETE equals.
What I refer to is women making statements that are made for no other reason than to wound, to demean, and to belittle men. Which often use facts the men would rather leave buried; things in a man's past. Who hasn't made mistakes? Who has an absolutely perfect family? Who has never had insecurities?
It was Redisca who wrote here in a thread regarding a radio show where humiliation took place in revenge to a cheating girlfriend that publicly humiliating a person is akin to murder, to killing their spirit. Women (and of course, MEN TOO) need to realize that some words can cause profound emotional damage, not to mention destroy or damage relationships.
So women, PLEASE be careful. Not all men are going to hold back; not all men are gentlemen; not all men will keep their cool under the heat caused by dangerous words hurled their way. As Danzjeepn said, women are just not aware of how strong we men are. Even a man in average shape is stronger than the average woman. Take it from someone who has been lifting weights for 5 years straight and who can barbell curl as much weight as certain smaller, petite women weigh. If you go swinging at a man, do so knowing that he may well hit you back.
I'm against it - however, women do need to realize that they must watch their words. It is human nature to get angry at mean-spirited, hurtful statements, and oftentimes the emotional response finds an outlet in violence.
What I'm about to write may get me neg-repped, but I'm going to state it anyway..
. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
A friend of mine used to work in corporate law. He said he saw incidents that turned him away from his earlier feminist beliefs. He saw senior attorneys literally hurl books at paralegals and at junior lawyers, and even a medium-sized book can cause pain if not a bruise and even bleeding if it strikes one's face or scalp. Strangely, these attorneys were never punished. What would have happened if it had been a senior male attorney hurling a book at a female paralegal or junior lawyer's face or head?.
Funny. If that had happened to me it would have turned me off corporate lawyers who abuse their positions of power. Feminism has nothing to do with it.
Am I surprised there were no consequences? Not at all. I gather the culture of some of those corporate law firms can be pretty venomous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
Women, at times, are simply clueless at how men's honor and pride are wounded when women say evil things that tear at their insides. References to family, or to their manhood, can literally break a man's spirit.
What I refer to is women making statements that are made for no other reason than to wound, to demean, and to belittle men. Which often use facts the men would rather leave buried; things in a man's past.
So what? That will never justify using violence against another person, male or female.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
It was Redisca who wrote here in a thread regarding a radio show where humiliation took place in revenge to a cheating girlfriend that publicly humiliating a person is akin to murder, to killing their spirit. Women (and of course, MEN TOO) need to realize that some words can cause profound emotional damage, not to mention destroy or damage relationships.
So women, PLEASE be careful. Not all men are going to hold back; not all men are gentlemen; not all men will keep their cool under the heat caused by dangerous words hurled their way. As Danzjeepn said, women are just not aware of how strong we men are. Even a man in average shape is stronger than the average woman. Take it from someone who has been lifting weights for 5 years straight and who can barbell curl as much weight as certain smaller, petite women weigh. If you go swinging at a man, do so knowing that he may well hit you back.
Telling women to watch out or they might get the living crap beat out of them is one of the fundamental elements of abuse.
Telling women to watch out or they might get the living crap beat out of them is one of the fundamental elements of abuse.
Um... no.
Not all men are going to hold themselves. Not all men are aware that hitting a woman (except in self-defense, for example) is wrong. Not all men will care about the fact that women are smaller and weaker and that a well-placed punch to a woman's face can break her jaw, teeth, and even cause neck damage. Men like me who have never once hit a woman know this, and apparently so do you - but do ALL others?
Telling women to watch out or they might get the living crap beat out of them is one of the fundamental elements of abuse.
Not necessarily true. Being forewarned is forearmed. If I tell you it is a bad idea to kick a Grizzly in the rear I am not abusing you. It is just applying Logic and good sense.
Too many folks seem to lack a sense of self preservation. They drive their cars into flood waters. They stand on a beach during a storm. I think they even get outraged when a stupid action causes them harm. Regardless of some notion of what is right, that you do not deserve the reaction that happens, protect yourself! Caution is not being chicken, it is wisdom.
The reality is that women are not going to police themselves because they do not have ultimate physical power. That is a man's domain and as such men will always be responsible for protecting women...and particularly protecting them against other men and women. This is the role of policemen and military figures. Additionally, when its all said and done, women are almost always going to excuse themselves of their irrational behavior by ascribing it to whatever emotion was coursing through their bodies at the moment.
That said, and within that very context, many people are clueless about the origins of not hitting women. Absolutely never hitting women is a relatively modern concept. The Vikings smashed the skulls of women and children just as they did men. No discrimination whatsoever. Further, the forbidding of hitting women came about in a zeitgeist when not all females were considered women. Real women at that time were expected to have married and have husbands to protect them and their honor...And in that same light, those husbands were expected to protect them dutifully, period. As her protector, woman beating by a husband was sacrilege (not saying isolated incidents of it never occurred but it was certainly never encouraged nor accepted). Of course this meant that only a dishonorable unmarried woman would be open to the disrespect of strange men.
Lastly, the notion of women being off limits to the physical wrath of men arose in a time when women were physically dainty and classically feminine. With the size of some of these oxen walking around trying to pass themselves off as women today, it would be foolhardy for an average sized man to stand around as some these unladylike leviathans wail on them.
Last edited by solytaire; 06-08-2010 at 08:40 AM..
If men have grown up with violence in their home they become immune to the effects and regard it as a normal way to interact, however I find it really hard to accept that some men simply don't know it's wrong to hit a woman.
I personally think it's wrong to hit anyone, man or woman.
I also learnt my lesson about hitting children. My daughter was about 4 at the time. She was being naughty so I smacked her on the bottom and she had her hand defending her butt. A couple of hours later she said her finger hurt and I looked at it and it was swollen. I took her up to the ED and they xrayed it and sure enough it was broken. The nurse said to my daughter "What happened to your finger?". 4 year old replied "Mummy broke it". I bet they did some research on me that day
Anyway, it never set quite right and still has a kink in it which she gleefully points out even to this very day.
Shouldn't be any question about how someone should react in situations where there treatened with assault or an assault occured. Another person made a demeaning remark, what ever the list of excuses or gender are unimportant, there are no defenses ifs ands or buts.
You remove yourself from the situation, whether it includes calling 911 or taking a drive in your car, staying with a friend or Shelter for Domestic Violence, what ever the particular situation calls for.
Why this topic is debated this way is beyond me.
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