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Old 06-14-2010, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,925,342 times
Reputation: 3767

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YEC devotees were apoplectic about the find by Dr. Mary Schweitzer of Montana, in her (reliable radio-isotope dated) 68 million year of dinosaur fossils. They gleefully asserted that since dino DNA (never claimed by Dr. Schweitzer..) or red blood cells (also never claimed by the Dr.) or indeed any soft tissue could not have lasted that long, and hence, logically, this find "proved" that dinosaurs were less than 6000 years old.

Instead, Schweitzer's and the U. of Washington's most recent results,

Proteins, soft tissue from 80-million-year-old dino support theory that molecules preserve over time | e! Science News

...confirm that fossil protein-based slimy remnants can, indeed, remain discoverable for, so far, up to 80 million years when or if they are buried in certain specific conditions. The "no dino soft tissue can survive that long!" assertion of non-scientific Creationists is proof in itself of their long-standing scientific illiteracy of this, and most other paleontological or archeological work.

As well, they hope to deny science its right to improve knowledge or understanding on any areas. This may be because their only source of knowledge on ancient events is a singular book written, obviously, by non-scientists who simply made up fantasy reasons for poorly observed and documented events of their time.

Strange logic indeed. If such undisturbed tissue or structures were found, it could easily be in the 100,000+ year old range, given the known decay rate and racemization of proteins.

Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki

However, as science so often does, and the Scientific Method encourages, further study by the prestigious University of Washington has shown that the initial speculation by Dr. Schweitzer (which is all she ever did...) has proven to be wrong. They only concur that soft tissue is the long-decayed residue of ancient proteins.

New research challenges notion that dinosaur soft tissues still survive | e! Science News

This interesting quote from the article is telling:

Dr. Kaye said he began his research with the hope of being the second person to find preserved dinosaur tissues. In addition to the acid bath procedure used in [Schweitzer's] previous work, he added examination by electron microscope before the bones were dissolved. He was surprised by the findings.

In other words, this scientific team intended to confirm the original findings, and hoped to provide the second proof. his methodology was more intense and incorporated additional "forensic tools".

But as he also says, "you have to go where the science leads you, not where you hope it leads you!"

Aha. Yes! The big difference between science and faith-based assumptions.

So now, will YECs drop their absurd claims of "dino DNA" or "dino red blood cells"? Nope: I guarantee it. (just watch the responses to this thread...) On this sort of evidence, which they happily co-opt, misquote , grossly over-exaggerate on it's results and conclusions (GORE™), or modify the technical content of, it's considered to be of too much value in convincing the less critical, the less scientifically educated, and will continue to be misrepresented for decades. It's already found it's "rightful" place amongst all the other fantasy techno-finds.

Essentially then, we have made-up Creationist evidence, vigorously presented as sanctioned by an established and credible university researcher (who has since agreed with the latest research findings by Dr. Kayne), that YEC presenters will now refuse to acknowledge.

There goes their credibility, huh?
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,566 posts, read 37,168,881 times
Reputation: 14020
So which researchers do you think are correct? The more recent article published in April 2009 claims that it is indeed soft dino tissue, but the older article (Thomas Kaye) says it is bacterial bio film...More work needed?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,925,342 times
Reputation: 3767
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
So which researchers do you think are correct? The more recent article published in April 2009 claims that it is indeed soft dino tissue, but the older article (Thomas Kaye) says it is bacterial bio film...More work needed?
The more modern work indicates that it is the left-over result of once-identifiable organized dino tissue, but that it's but a remnant, unidentifiable. Like film in a saucepan after making the soup! That's my read on it.

Certainly not specific dino DNA or workable blood cells to be sure. Agreed?

I think the larger point is that there was a lot of GOREā„¢ assumptions and instant over-reaching on Dr. Schweitzer's initial speculations, in which no such conclusion was ever reached by her, or now, others, as to it being recognizable dino DNA or blood cell tissue. C34 and others happily did conclude exactly that, which I'm sure they gleaned from the official YEC/Creationist website analyses.
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