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Atheist or Theist, if you derelict your work duties to surf the internet you are a thief. Theft is theft.
If a person will steal they will also lie because they are living a lie, everything else is moot.
Well, they had better add-on several more wings in HELL as it is going to be quite crowded. Oh, I'm retired as well, so I can with confidence tell everyone except Mother Nature and Father Time to "kiss ass".
Well, they had better add-on several more wings in HELL as it is going to be quite crowded. Oh, I'm retired as well, so I can with confidence tell everyone except Mother Nature and Father Time to "kiss ass".
Gabs poses a moral question. We should perhaps resolve to leave private Internet work to our free time, of which I have quite a lot as I am now retired.
Gabs poses a moral question. We should perhaps resolve to leave private Internet work to our free time, of which I have quite a lot as I am now retired.
Welcome to the club. I've been retired for 14 years, since age 50. People feel sorry for me, "What do you do????". I just laugh. I do whatever I want to do.
I haven't posted a comment in this thread yet, but here is my thought.
I am an Atheist and my morality is based on the teachings of my American society and my own common sense.
I don't think the Theists' morality is based on fear. I suspect they love their gods and want to follow their gods' wishes.
Sure, sometimes they tell others they are going to hell because they are not following the rules of their gods, but I don't think that means their main motive for good behavior is based on fear. I think they love their gods and want do what their gods want.
Please indicate where I have bad mouthed atheist morality, Arequipa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
(Hmmm.. I must have missed something here, Mystic. Whatever did you mean by " generalized self-congratulatory preening by atheists over their superior personal morality" then?
Our personal morality, mine at least, is rightfully independent from a regulated and mandated set of guideline rules, many of which require the total abandonment of common sense, the adoption of silly beliefs about Satan and a living, absolute deity. You then contradict yourself by saying...
...we ALL have a personal morality . . . not just atheists . . . and our motivations run the gamut.
It isn't the motive that defines the legitimacy of morality . . . it is an actual purpose or reason for human existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agreeable-rflmn
Exactly, and I do not need a group-agreed formula to define it, and then act on for proper ethical behavioral guidelines.
If something is constructive to the purpose for our existence . . . it is moral. If it is destructive to that purpose . . . it is immoral. ALL other bases for morality are arbitrary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astounded-rflmn
Well, wrong if examined carefully. The decimation and ruination of our natural world so we can all have an abundance of oil? We go to genocidal war to assure our continued supply of nice comfortable heating options? All constructive to the purpose of our existence if taken as the majority ideals of the primarily Christian Big Biz-oriented Republicans. A group which is hardly oriented towards an altruistic approach nor one that wishes to limit our over-consumptive civilization, which is primarily based on Christian morals and their greed-based and holier than thou ethics.
The fact that we do not have an irrefutable source of the purpose for our existence . . . nor any agreement that we even have any such purpose . . . all moral issues become arbitrary and dependent on consensus, period. Judging superior or inferior morality then becomes a moot issue . . . and you know it, Arequipa.
And yet, to reiterate what you have contradictorily said above, Mystic, our own ethical standards are not open to group review as long as they do not hurt anyone or force our ideals onto others. This is, however, anathema to the Christian dream, for they would love nothing more than to force their ideals on all of us, all the while looking down their noses and making statement after statement that atheists are "obviously" morally bankrupt and ethically rudderless. All because we don't buy into a pre-ordered list of sins, of the results of us missing our opportunities to fall to our knees and pray to a non-existent God figure.
Do you think this sort of insult (which comes as "inbounds" regularly from the majority of theists) is just carelessly hand-waved away and forgotten by us atheists, who justifiably pride ourselves in our unfettered thinking, and our wide-open mindsets that allow all the options? Not just the ones that glorify an outdated and debunked wooden God icon?
Answer: when we compare our ethical standards against those of fervent, shrill theists, who do you think comes out, in reality, smelling more altruistic and fully open-minded?
Or, alternately stated, and very well indeed...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
" generalized self-congratulatory preening by atheists over their superior personal morality" Do you think our eyes are painted on? And before you start a chop logic distinction about bad mouthing atheists about their morality is not the same thing as bad mouthing the morality itself, crafty lawyer fiddling does nothing to enhance your by now decidedly shaky credibility.
An imposed morality from elsewhere is no better than one imposed on ourselves by some dictator, and in fact the morality we have (even supposed god -given morality) is actually quite relative.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
Atheist or Theist, if you derelict your work duties to surf the internet you are a thief. Theft is theft.
If a person will steal they will also lie because they are living a lie, everything else is moot.
gabfest, what is the purpose of this post? How does it relate to the OP topic? Are you trying to paint atheist posters here as liars or cheats somehow? Do Christians here never take the opportunity to post while at work? I know, for instance, that the late-great C34 did exactly that. Other theists do as well, I'm quite sure.
Btw, for your scorecard list, I'm partly self-employed and partly retired, thus can't really cheat on my employer!
Please indicate where I have bad mouthed atheist morality, Arequipa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
" generalized self-congratulatory preening by atheists over their superior personal morality" Do you think our eyes are painted on? And before you start a chop logic distinction about bad mouthing atheists about their morality is not the same thing as bad mouthing the morality itself, crafty lawyer fiddling does nothing to enhance your by now decidedly shaky credibility.
Quote:
Moderator cut: off topic
An imposed morality from elsewhere is no better than one imposed on ourselves by some dictator, and in fact the morality we have (even supposed god -given morality) is actually quite relative.
We have no disagreements here . . . if you carefully re-read my post.
Quote:
We have discussed this before and your persistent inability to get up to speed reminds me of the type of professor who kept teaching from the same old textbook even when it was long out of date.
This is completely unfounded misrepresentation, Arequipa. Shame on you.
And yet, to reiterate what you have contradictorily said above, Mystic, our own ethical standards are not open to group review as long as they do not hurt anyone or force our ideals onto others. This is, however, anathema to the Christian dream, for they would love nothing more than to force their ideals on all of us, all the while looking down their noses and making statement after statement that atheists are "obviously" morally bankrupt and ethically rudderless. All because we don't buy into a pre-ordered list of sins, of the results of us missing our opportunities to fall to our knees and pray to a non-existent God figure.
Do you think this sort of insult (which comes as "inbounds" regularly from the majority of theists) is just carelessly hand-waved away and forgotten by us atheists, who justifiably pride ourselves in our unfettered thinking, and our wide-open mindsets that allow all the options? Not just the ones that glorify an outdated and debunked wooden God icon?
Rifle, rifle, rifle . . . nothing I said is contradictory as I explained to Arequipa. I acknowledge that atheists have legitimate grievances about the treatment they receive from Christians and the religious in general. I also understand your particular animus toward the religious dogma that dominates fundamentalists and a lot of the mainstream religions. NONE of that justifies the assumption of moral superiority by atheists based on motivations. The construct remains regrettably moot for the reason I stated.
Thank you kindly. I have been retired for the last five years, however, just for the record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat
Welcome to the club. I've been retired for 14 years, since age 50. People feel sorry for me, "What do you do????". I just laugh. I do whatever I want to do.
Cor, yeah. What do I do with myself?all the stuff I hadn't been able to do while working. (Sorry, Mods, for the chatroom stuff)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
We have no disagreements here . . . if you carefully re-read my post.This is completely unfounded misrepresentation, Arequipa. Shame on you.
I may re-read, but I think that I agree that there is no disagreement - there is no reason to suppose that our morality is anything other than a human- devised one. I also think that you do have a problem in getting up to speed on our arguments. If I find that I was mistaken, then I of course will say so, but I haven't seen anything yet to suggest it. The arguments just seem to be the same. So I'll hold the shameface.
I have to question this: "A purpose for our existence would provide a non-arbitrary basis for moral decisions. If something is constructive to the purpose for our existence . . . it is moral." Very questionable as it leaves too many parameters open, for example, is what is moral intrinsically moral or subjectively moral? (I am sure we've had this discussion before).
If the purpose for our existence is the one devised by nature - for us to survive - then what is conducive to our survival is good for us, but is it moral? However, as relates to the topic, what would therefore be moral (or at least good for us) would be as relevant for us as atheists as for anyone else. It is denied that theists try to be moral out of fear. Perhaps so. In fact it seems probable to me, but atheists certainly have a personal morality (it is simply false to claim they do not) but in no way could it be based on fear - except fear of not doing what's good for us.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-25-2012 at 04:04 PM..
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People feel sorry for me, "What do you do????". I just laugh. I do whatever I want to do.
