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I was a Christian and I struggled to maintain my Christian faith over a period of about 2 decades, but eventually I just had to acknowledge that the Bible was mostly nonsense. Rejecting the Bible does not mean that I necessarily reject spirituality, or "God" (I prefer to say "Goddess") in some broad sense, but if there is a God of the sort referred to in the Bible who impregnated a virgin, etc., then all I can say is this: I tried my best to "meet him half way" but ultimately I cannot embrace faith in this "fairy-tale" figure in direct competition with reason. Spirituality is beyond reason, but it does not necessarily have to contradict reason. Faith in the Christian God, however, does directly contradict reason, and this is what I cannot accept.
As for free will, I do believe in free will. In the light of quantum theory, we have powerful rational arguments for rejecting determinism. If we reject determinism, then our options are (1) pure randomness or (2) the emergence of patterned-yet-indeterminate behavior. Patterned indeterminism requires the existence of genuine choices, and I define 'free will' as the capacity inherent in Being for making genuine choices.
Meeting Him half way does not mean reading a book or sticking to any religion. The meeting half way comes from meditation or stillness in order to be open to listen to His still small voice. If we threw away every single religious and spiritual book that ever existed, we'd still be able to meet Him half way. It's inate in us to find Him. We have the freesom to choose the path that brings us to the middle.
When we meet half way and actually take the time to listen, we can find all that is Truth, Beauty and Goodness. It doesn't take a religious person to do that.
Everything is up to us no matter what that "thing" is. That includes finding God because He won't jump out at us and say "Here I am". We must seek Him from within. We have to have the free will choice to listen to men or listen from within. I don't care what religionists say, we can all hear what God has to say if we just take the time to listen.
Yes. The mans' "free will" explanation is frequently used to explain why there exists evil in a universe created by an all-perfect and loving God.
The problem here is that there are many physical evils and defects in the world (eg. cancer, tornado's, etc) that have nothing at all to do with free will.
And, of course, you are expected to exercise free will in accepting the answers to religious questions which the clergy provide. Otherwise, this merciful God will send you to hell where you'll burn for all eternity.
"Because God loves you" of course.
I believe your thinking is very constructive and intelligent
The belief in hell is ridiculous. The word hell is never directly even mentioned by Jesus. Even experts argue over meanings in the bible. People who soak in the bible all day become entrenched in their specific needs and miss the obvious. Bible people are always waving their fist at people. Hardly a peaceful existence. Truly.
An interest in early Greek philosophy in my late teens inspired reasoning into the picture. Over time, this lead to reading physics on an enjoyment basis.(only and only when the mood suits me) I am a pianist .
The point made in physical evils tornadoes etc, is a huge and undeniable reality. It is part of what makes a beautiful day noticeable. Lets go further.
Is a distraught bee who is executed by its fellow members due to an over zealous duty to collect pollen for the day deserving of execution ?
Of course not. ( relative to this evil buisness of interpetation)
Free will is no doubt somewhat of an illusion . Reasoning in motive for behavior and attitude support lack of choice. It may well be that the lack of choice "provides" for free will or...change in growth through choice.
Without motive for behavior there would be no free will in re-direction.
Is motive or condition 99% responcible....probably, leaving a 1% free will.
The hard to believe aspects of bible , to be honest, for myself, is interesting. Interesting, without worry . I do not think the fantastic and unbelievable issues are imp.
Super imposing concepts of reflection, time, space, big bang, nature, all the data we have on a possiblities to creation is unbelievably thought provoking. Not in a direct intent of affirmation , but in a strictly open digestion of information . Similar to above post.
Einstein remarked, the answers are here.
I find there to be no end to wholeness through form and reason in design.
Including the big bang.
Perhaps, (edit)and only perhaps) The Source does not exist, relative to "exactly" what the Source is
in reference to creation. How could this be ?
Well , if the big bang was in of itself , a reflection of absolute reality,
in due contrast of opposite interpretation, what would we have.
A density of...anti matter.( where term anti matter is simply used in place of what we may not know)
Cause in creation being a reflection of the absolute reality. An explosion of, anti-matter...or the Source. Whats left in this "reflection"..... in the primordial chaos, is fragments of this Source. Ourselves, the reflected
fragments evolving over time. The Source has sacrificed itself relative to the reflection of...creation.
The principal of reflection and dramatic role is too large to give slight attention to.
.
Enjoyed the thought in nature of tornadoes etc and stability in a beautiful day. I like to think exactly the same. Theres no point otherwise in good
thinking.
Last edited by ClearNight; 11-17-2010 at 12:50 PM..
We must seek Him from within. We have to have the free will choice to listen to men or listen from within. I don't care what religionists say, we can all hear what God has to say if we just take the time to listen.
I accept all of this, so long as "God" does not = an Intelligent Creator who built the earth 7000 years ago, got pissed, caused a big flood then said "Woops, sorry, I promise to never do that again", impregnated a virgin, and promised to save all of our souls if we have faith that this virgin gave birth to a savior.
If I understand your post correctly, I don't have to go halfway cuz I'm already there.
As for free will, I agree with those who have pointed out that it is limited. We can't choose whether or not to be born; we can't choose our own nature, and we can't choose the circumstances into which we are born. But our future is always open. There are probabilities, but no such thing as fate.
I accept all of this, so long as "God" does not = an Intelligent Creator who built the earth 7000 years ago, got pissed, caused a big flood then said "Woops, sorry, I promise to never do that again", impregnated a virgin, and promised to save all of our souls if we have faith that this virgin gave birth to a savior.
If I understand your post correctly, I don't have to go halfway cuz I'm already there.
As for free will, I agree with those who have pointed out that it is limited. We can't choose whether or not to be born; we can't choose our own nature, and we can't choose the circumstances into which we are born. But our future is always open. There are probabilities, but no such thing as fate.
Well, I can see your point about the so called intelligent creator as most religionists see Him but I assure you that I do not see Him in that light.
If you're halfway there then you should be able to clearly hear God and what He may ask you to do. You don't have to do anything He says so don't think that He would coerce anything upon anyone. He just asks.
As to the free will part, I believe that we choose to be born and we also choose which family we want to reside with. I see it like this: we are created souls living in the spirit world, knowing God. We "ask" to come into this world to experience this material life since this is the onlyy chance we'll get. We are then "instructed" to seek out the experiences we would like to have (overcoming poverty, abuse, and even being born into a wealthy family). I believe that as we go through life, the path we choose and the outcome, is by our own choices and we are not forced into doing anything against our own selves. This is free will.
Now, as we die and go back into the spirit world, all those choices we made, good, bad or indifferent, "present" themselves and how we dealt with them according to the Laws of the One who created us. We have free will to choose yet we still have to follow the spiritual laws that were set forth since the beginning when God created all souls (or whatever its called on different worlds and according to how the individual was created, having nothing at all to do with the material form) on all universes.
Well, I can see your point about the so called intelligent creator as most religionists see Him but I assure you that I do not see Him in that light.
If you're halfway there then you should be able to clearly hear God and what He may ask you to do. You don't have to do anything He says so don't think that He would coerce anything upon anyone. He just asks.
As to the free will part, I believe that we choose to be born and we also choose which family we want to reside with. I see it like this: we are created souls living in the spirit world, knowing God. We "ask" to come into this world to experience this material life since this is the only chance we'll get. We are then "instructed" to seek out the experiences we would like to have (overcoming poverty, abuse, and even being born into a wealthy family). I believe that as we go through life, the path we choose and the outcome, is by our own choices and we are not forced into doing anything against our own selves. This is free will.
Now, as we die and go back into the spirit world, all those choices we made, good, bad or indifferent, "present" themselves and how we dealt with them according to the Laws of the One who created us. We have free will to choose yet we still have to follow the spiritual laws that were set forth since the beginning when God created all souls (or whatever its called on different worlds and according to how the individual was created, having nothing at all to do with the material form) on all universes.
Well , I don't know Reverend111...
I thought of what your saying before, the idea of choosing your family and
and life experience from position of spirit . I dismissed it in 2 min.
What or anything with a choice would choose to be born into say.....
getting eaten by a vulcher at 8 years old following a life of rejection and "confusion" in the middle of Africa. I can think of a few more, can't you...?
Please review integrity of idea , some people may be ridiculously mislead.
Anyway, if anything a spirit would be in position of infraction or penalty to
exist and be delivered into mortality. Maybe thats worth mulling around.
Not for me though, that doesn't make sense either.
By the way, I noticed that you married Male-Male. Does your new church have any rules at all ? You don't give any regard for following the basic intended design of gender. A slant in rejection against creation is presented to you and you serve? To whom are you representing, God ?
Can me and my pet monkey get married ..? Whats the difference ? Can I rob a bank tommorow?
Is it a play church ?
Everybody knows , there is no guidance in a spineless opportunist.
Last edited by ClearNight; 11-20-2010 at 06:48 PM..
I thought of what your saying before, the idea of choosing your family and
and life experience from position of spirit . I dismissed it in 2 min.
What or anything with a choice would choose to be born into say.....
getting eaten by a vulcher at 8 years old following a life of rejection and "confusion" in the middle of Africa. I can think of a few more, can't you...?
Please review integrity of idea , some people may be ridiculously mislead.
Anyway, if anything a spirit would be in position of infraction or penalty to
exist and be delivered into mortality. Maybe thats worth mulling around.
Not for me though, that doesn't make sense either.
By the way, I noticed that you married Male-Male. Does your new church have any rules at all ? You don't give any regard for following the basic intended design of gender. A slant in rejection against creation is presented to you and you serve? To whom are you representing, God ?
Can me and my pet monkey get married ..? Whats the difference ? Can I rob a bank tommorow?
Is it a play church ?
Everybody knows , there is no guidance in a spineless opportunist.
We are here to learn, to experience and overcome those things in our lives that are not in harmony with the Laws of God. We don't choose to be eaten by a vulture but we do choose to live the kind of life where they exist. Everything happens because of a choice we made. A free will choice.
The church I attend is only for the spiritual aspects of our lives. They teach us how to live in this world without being of it. The material things do not matter and, yes, a male material body can mate with another male material body. We look at the soul of the person because that is the real us. The material body has nothing to do with the real us. It is only something we wear while on this world. Take away that form and your still left with a male soul and a female soul even though they had both been male on this world. It isn't rocket science but some people refuse to look on the inside yet claim they know all about God and what He created. Our parents created the material body and God created the soul. So, instead of making fun of my beliefs, why don't you discover what it is I actually do believe. It will take a lot of reading and soul searching so make sure your up for the task. I can give you at least 3 web sites I visit and you can also purchase books if you don't want to go there. There are many more that I have studied and many more books I've read. I've talked with God and I talk with my angelic guides so make sure you know where I'm coming from before you go jumping to your own conclusions about how messed up I might be or what my thoughts are on any given subject. I may not agree with you but I would never say things that would destroy my own soul to make myself look good to others.
We are here to learn, to experience and overcome those things in our lives that are not in harmony with the Laws of God. We don't choose to be eaten by a vulture but we do choose to live the kind of life where they exist. Everything happens because of a choice we made. A free will choice.
The church I attend is only for the spiritual aspects of our lives. They teach us how to live in this world without being of it. The material things do not matter and, yes, a male material body can mate with another male material body. We look at the soul of the person because that is the real us. The material body has nothing to do with the real us. It is only something we wear while on this world. Take away that form and your still left with a male soul and a female soul even though they had both been male on this world. It isn't rocket science but some people refuse to look on the inside yet claim they know all about God and what He created. Our parents created the material body and God created the soul. So, instead of making fun of my beliefs, why don't you discover what it is I actually do believe. It will take a lot of reading and soul searching so make sure your up for the task. I can give you at least 3 web sites I visit and you can also purchase books if you don't want to go there. There are many more that I have studied and many more books I've read. I've talked with God and I talk with my angelic guides so make sure you know where I'm coming from before you go jumping to your own conclusions about how messed up I might be or what my thoughts are on any given subject. I may not agree with you but I would never say things that would destroy my own soul to make myself look good to others.
Now your changing to :
"We are here to learn, to experience and overcome those things in our lives that are not in harmony with the Laws of God. We don't choose to be eaten by a vulture but we do choose to live the kind of life where they exist. Everything happens because of a choice we made. A free will choice."
ClearNight says:
Theres no rational point in free will when consequence is independent of the choice. We are independent of any notion of a spirit decision to transform into humanity.
If its replied that
the point is the exercise in love of God. Well , the exercise
is independent of the decision. Therefore there is "no merit"
to the supposed choice made by spirit.
ClearNight re this body and soul business :
The essence of self or soul is enriched through the decisions we make in direct partnership with the body. That is the chief focus of the journey through life relative to acknowledgment of the soul.
Reverend, the body is NOT something we arbitrarily wear.
The body is the instrument that essence of self plays.(soul)
Innocence, in essence of self is challenged through life. This is the foundation of growth in self awareness. I might add that the reason for Spirituality is guidance in this difficult challenge.
Inviting God to a matrimony of two men which contradicts Gods design is puzzling. Matrimony, a promise in witness and pledge to God, while denying the intended and physically obvious plan
.
This is my thought. As well, I have no intention of a discourse regarding perversion. I simply find it of no use, as its fruits are of no use.
BTW....if you would like to thoroughly comprehend the subject of homosexuality, I can suggest speaking to a Physician of a hospital of choice in any city in proximity to a gay district.
Talk to him, find out what the general theme is in homosexuality.
What they do to themselves. The harm. Consenting adults? Well
man should give a "rag doll" to his perception in "danger of self.
Thats all Ive got to say about this.
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