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Plad, He predetermined according to His foreknowledge but in the present time we have free will...I could have chosen the milk...if I had then God would have foreknown that too and predetermined accordingly.
I told you it was circular.
Okay, I TRULY don't get what you're saying here! Huh?
And kay, you are never going to let me live that down are you! Your perspective is the common one in orthodoxy, and I truly meant that the opinion was, IMO, gobbeldy-gunk. So it was more like a general slam meant for millions of people that you happened to be in...LOL. Sorry.
Plad, He predetermined according to His foreknowledge but in the present time we have free will...I could have chosen the milk...if I had then God would have foreknown that too and predetermined accordingly.
I told you it was circular.
Oh dear!! I'm off to the Masturbation thread. Oh drat...it's closed! It will have to be oral sex then.
Plad, He predetermined according to His foreknowledge but in the present time we have free will...I could have chosen the milk...if I had then God would have foreknown that too and predetermined accordingly.
I told you it was circular.
What came first the chicken or the egg? Which came first our actions or God's predetermination? You can't say God predetermined anything without also accepting that he also has foreknowledge of it all. I believe that God in his foreknowledge (knowing us before we were born, and Christ's death before the foundation of the world) knew how the "video" would be played out and thus by that (as you said) he has predetermined who would be the elect. But, in the present time that we are in we have free will to make a choice. We are not God and we do not know how the "video" will play out, but He does.
I haven't really been keeping up. I have had a lot of stuff here at home to take care of (just mundane, routine stuff that gets ignored because I am on the religion board too much!)
But I question.....just because someone knows what you will choose, does that negate free will?
God may have foreknowlege as to who will get hooked on drugs, who will become a prostitute, etc....but I don't believe he creates the sin or doesn't allow people a way out.
13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
But I question.....just because someone knows what you will choose, does that negate free will?
God may have foreknowlege as to who will get hooked on drugs, who will become a prostitute, etc....but I don't believe he creates the sin or doesn't allow people a way out.
13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
(1 Corinthians 10:13, NIV)
Dawn
You know, I have taken a harsh stance at times for the sake of argument , but really, I am starting to think that it's a combo deal? Basically, God does know all, but He lets us make the choices, and He knows all of the possible outcomes. The problem then is how does God have complete foreknowledge? Knowing, for instance, 3 possible outcomes is not the same as knowing what WILL happen, but is just knowing the possiblities. Any thoughts?
You know, I have taken a harsh stance at times for the sake of argument , but really, I am starting to think that it's a combo deal? Basically, God does know all, but He lets us make the choices, and He knows all of the possible outcomes. The problem then is how does God have complete foreknowledge? Knowing, for instance, 3 possible outcomes is not the same as knowing what WILL happen, but is just knowing the possiblities. Any thoughts?
So if He does know what happens, why create so many who will not choose Him?
This is very philosophical, but one more time let me try to explain this better than I seem to have done previously. He can't make the choice based on who will respond to Him because His foreknowledge is based on what they have already chosen. Jazz's timelime again.
He allowed them to choose...he didn't create them with the purpose in mind for them to not choose Him. He wishes for none to perish.
If He did not create them with the purpose in mind for them to not choose Him, then why was Jesus the Lamb of God, slain before the foundation of the world?
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Huh?
I'm off to the Masturbation thread. Oh drat...it's closed! It will have to be oral sex then.
, but really, I am starting to think that it's a combo deal? Basically, God does know all, but He lets us make the choices, and He knows all of the possible outcomes. The problem then is how does God have complete foreknowledge? Knowing, for instance, 3 possible outcomes is not the same as knowing what WILL happen, but is just knowing the possiblities.
