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didn't die for us? We don't deserve it, nobody does. He should of just let us die and that would of been the end of the problem. But instead, we are forced to play the game of good and evil, and many fail, the chances of going to heaven for an individual are very slim, let's not forget that it's going to be a very small percentage of everyone, of everyone that EVER existed, your response can be " I will take those chances" But many people take their chances when playing the lottery and only a few ever win, so your efforts may be for nothing, your efforts of worshiping, trying to please him, doing everything possible from the book might lead you to the same place a nonbeliever or an evil person might end up. I see no point why he died for any human being, the only ones that deserve this are the angels who never have fallen, they are superior, we are animals compared to them- physically, spiritually, and mentally superior they are.
I personally would like to wrap a very large millstone around the person(s)'s neck that gave rise to you believing in this collection of fairy tales.
1. Nobody deserves to live (in whatever hereafter exists). According to whom? Or what? Religion has, since its earliest beginnings, always had mankind stacked up against the gods. Man has always been painted as "no good." Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam, and followed by all the crackpot religious derivatives have all sung the same refrain. God is good; man is evil.
2. I don't see that we are forced to play any game, especially one that is of "good" and "evil." Good and evil are evaluated and determined by the human brain. Just because a person of a certain moral mentality writes something and adds the words "God said" does not make it divinely so. It only means that a person or group of persons wish to establish their own moral code upon all of humanity and like to add the so-called authority of God to force people to follow it.
3. "The chances of going to heaven are slim." Actually, when mankind looked up at the heavens (i.e., the stars) and desired to go to where their gods had descended from, there was zero chance of that happening. There may have been a wild time when our ancestors were zipping around the solar system with cities on the Moon and Mars--but until the modern Mythmakers are willing to share that kind of information with us--pro or con--then such accounts in ancient Indian lore will have to be regarded as science fiction. With the thought of God's kingdom coming to Earth, there was no thought of going to heaven. Heaven was coming to Earth, and then the Earth would be flattened out, and there would be a division of the human race. The "good guys" would live within the Kingdom's walls, and the rest of the world (about 99.9%) would not. This was then replaced with the Christian notion that the Kingdom had already come to Earth, and that everyone would be living inside the city's walls. Well, Christianity was changed back to the idea of sheep and goats, so that we now have the rebirth of the old fairy tale that 1% would get to be with God, and the 99% would be--ah, a change--doomed to an everlasting realm of punishment.
4. The whole idea of the Christ is that all are saved. Not some. All. The "some" part was part of the propaganda and is still fervently used to get people to accept a particular version of Christianity--a version not conceceived by the Christ but by different individuals who thought to aggrandize their own worth by establishing a religion in their name under the CEO-ship of the Christ.
5. If you mean "him" as the Christ, where here is the rub. Never did the Christ run around Palestine stating that people had to please him. He talked only of pleasing the Father, and there really was only one way to do that: love one another unconditionally. There was never any rules and guidelines on how to please God. That was only Jewish Rabbinism, a desire to make sure that 99% of the world's poplulation was not going to get to enjoy a happy afterlife. If we take apart every Christian "cult" under the banner of Christianity, we will soon bare the "rules and guidelines" that were put in place by people. If God didn't put any rules and guidelines out there, then what the hey are people insisting on them for? Again, their own aggrandizement.
The Christ is dead. The man died and rose from the dead. He was reabsorbed into God, even as each of us will be reabsorbed into God. So, what is the Christ then? A judge? A person looking for vengence? No way. This idea that the Christ would reappear as judge and jury totally contradicts the Gospel: "I am here to reconcile man with man and man with God." Period. This idea that the Christ would come back as some kind of avenging spirit goes back to Rabbinism, where the idea is reinforce that 99% of all humanity is doomed, doomed, I say.
6. There are no angels or demons. The human mind is quite capable of being neurotic enough without having to invent supernatural beings or worlds to explain an existence so mucked up. We have identified the Enemy, and it is Us.
7. So, what's the bottom line? Does one have to be a Christian? No. Far from it. I don't want to be a Christian if it means I have to be like so many Christians who speak a good line but live their lives completely opposite. I'll follow Christ's philosophy, but please . . . don't call me a Christian.
Does one have to do a lot of rituals, like banging one's head on the floor a hundred times, ringing bells to get God's attention, lighting a hundred candles or sticks of incense? Does one have to purposely walk around doing good deeds and then looking up at the ceiling or sky and saying: "Did you see that God? I did a good deed! Please say that is another brownie point in gaining admittance to your choirs for eternity." No.
Does one get to go around, making a list, making sure it is right by investigating the lives of people who live next door, judging as to who is deserving and who is not deserving of the afterlife? No. One should, first, get a life and live it. Such a waste of time digging into people's garbage to see how often they do the same naughty things we do.
No. All the "rules and guidelines" mentioned before go out the window. The Christ philosophy is extremely simple but also extremely difficult to follow:
1. Love one another as you love yourself. Better than yourself, because most of us can't even love ourselves. This love is unconditional, no exceptions, no distinctions between the so-called saints and the so-called villains.
2. "Kill" the Me-ism that makes the Me the center of life. As long as the Me is in charge, you can barely stand yourself and often don't.
3. Place God in the center of one's life. How to do that? Follow #1: love one another as you love yourself.
And you are going to get slammed. You will be cheated, despised, a loser in the real game show of life like American Idol. And you are going to be the happiest person in the world right up to the moment of death. Why? Because you played the game of life your way, secure in your own fashion of believing and trusting, and you reached out and touched other people where and when it really counted. History will forever forget you, but not the people you touched who, hopefully, will be able to find the strength and wherewithal of reaching out and touching other people like you did.
Last edited by Wallisdj; 02-20-2011 at 09:11 PM..
Reason: I'd like to finish my thought before this computer . . .
I see no point why he died for any human being, the only ones that deserve this are the angels who never have fallen, they are superior, we are animals compared to them- physically, spiritually, and mentally superior they are.
Yeah, we are terrible creatures. I can see why you just want to curl up in a corner and feel sorry for yourself.
Since I am too worthless to even try to make myself better, I guess I will just have to go out and enjoy being alive every single day. Hope you don't mind.
No it would not be great if Jesus did not die and rose from the dead , and believing this would be a hopeless existences ....... may to be logical to a natural mind to reject the past of religion as evil and useless, but in Christianity there is no evil past but a future beyond death that will be glorious ......
didn't die for us? We don't deserve it, nobody does.
You're right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnosis
He should of just let us die and that would of been the end of the problem. But instead, we are forced to play the game of good and evil, and many fail, the chances of going to heaven for an individual are very slim, let's not forget that it's going to be a very small percentage of everyone, of everyone that EVER existed, your response can be " I will take those chances" But many people take their chances when playing the lottery and only a few ever win, so your efforts may be for nothing, your efforts of worshiping, trying to please him, doing everything possible from the book might lead you to the same place a nonbeliever or an evil person might end up.
That's the reason He died for us, because we cannot measure up on our own. His righteousness is imputed to us, if only we believe. He is the only human who has ever measured up to God's standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnosis
I see no point why he died for any human being, the only ones that deserve this are the angels who never have fallen, they are superior, we are animals compared to them- physically, spiritually, and mentally superior they are.
Again, you seem to be under the impression some of us can "measure up" on our own. Unfortunately, the "disease" of a sinful nature was passed down to all humans from Adam. We are doomed on our own, but secure with Christ.
didn't die for us? We don't deserve it, nobody does. He should of just let us die and that would of been the end of the problem. But instead, we are forced to play the game of good and evil, and many fail, the chances of going to heaven for an individual are very slim, let's not forget that it's going to be a very small percentage of everyone, of everyone that EVER existed, your response can be " I will take those chances" But many people take their chances when playing the lottery and only a few ever win, so your efforts may be for nothing, your efforts of worshiping, trying to please him, doing everything possible from the book might lead you to the same place a nonbeliever or an evil person might end up. I see no point why he died for any human being, the only ones that deserve this are the angels who never have fallen, they are superior, we are animals compared to them- physically, spiritually, and mentally superior they are.
What makes you assume you even have the right to live, let alone die? If evolution without the guiding hand of God is possible, the odds are that you wouldn't exist to worry about these things in the first place. You know, it's a pretty long stretch of co-incidences which leads from the primordial soup to you and the chances of it all coming together in the precise manner it did over eons to produce that individual creature you are defies calculation.
It seems to me that instead of concerning yourself with what happens after death, you ought to start by answering how you got here and why.
And here I thought it was only Jewish mothers who tried to guilt-trip their kids.....
Oy, vey!
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