In a free society it matters what your neighbor believes religiously (hell, atheist)
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One's beliefs guide how one votes. If my neighbors believe homosexuality is a sin, and enough of them believe that they may vote to make it illegal for another to marry the one they love.
If my neighbors believe that evolution by natural selection cannot be true because of their religious beliefs, they might vote in school boards that change the curriculum to teach intelligent design instead.
If my neighbors believe that there will soon be a war in Israel between those on God's side and those not, they may raise public support to send this country, our sons and daughters, into a war that they hope will usher in God's return.
If enough of my neighbors believe that Islamic law should be the law of this country, they might amend or create a new constitution to establish it.
What my neighbors believe affects me and my ability to live my own personal life such as who I can marry, what my kids will be taught in school, whether my children are drafted into a war, whether I will have to live by strict laws I don't agree with, etc. Those aren't hypotheticals; it is the case now.
There is also the case in which although the law may permit something, one may have to suffer all the difficulties and disadvantages of social rejection due to what your neighbors believe. For example, if the majority of my neighbors believed that it was wrong for a woman to work outside the home, if a woman did it she might face constant harassment, be unable to obtain positive references when applying for a job, be shunned and excluded from social gatherings, have her children beat up at school because she works, etc. Her quality of life is affected by her neighbors' beliefs.
We are social beings and what society thinks of us and permits us to do affects us a great deal. So, it matters what our neighbors believe. And their religious beliefs are often most fundamental and at the core of many of the decisions they make about how to vote and for what to express approval or disapproval.
I respect your right to believe whatever you choose, but I also feel that we must have the freedom to try to influence the beliefs of others. It matters greatly if we can get a majority of our neighbors to believe as we do. If you don't believe me, imagine for a moment if all of your neighbors believed women should be wearing a burqa. They might shun and harrass you and maybe even physically assault you if you wanted to do your own thing.
So, if I try to persuade you to believe differently than you currently do, that does not mean that I am disrespecting your right to believe whatever you choose. I am not denying you your right or forcing you to accept mine. One can accept your right to believe what you want and try to get you to believe something else at the same time. If, after my attempts, you continue to believe what you did at the start, that is fine. I want my freedom to believe what I want as well, and understand that some will try to persuade me to believe differently. That is ok.
What my neighbors believe affects my ability to live my own personal life, whether I will have to live by strict laws I don't agree with. Those aren't hypotheticals; it is the case now.
Her quality of life is affected by her neighbors' beliefs.
They might shun and harrass you and maybe even physically assault you if you wanted to do your own thing.
That is victim thinking.
People who choose not to buy into victim thinking, know that we are responsible for our own quality of life.
No one "out there" determines or affects my quality of life.
No person place or thing can stand in the way of my happiness. Period.
You have a choice whether to live your life as a victim. Best wishes.
One's beliefs guide how one votes. If my neighbors believe homosexuality is a sin, and enough of them believe that they may vote to make it illegal for another to marry the one they love.
If my neighbors believe that evolution by natural selection cannot be true because of their religious beliefs, they might vote in school boards that change the curriculum to teach intelligent design instead.
If my neighbors believe that there will soon be a war in Israel between those on God's side and those not, they may raise public support to send this country, our sons and daughters, into a war that they hope will usher in God's return.
If enough of my neighbors believe that Islamic law should be the law of this country, they might amend or create a new constitution to establish it.
What my neighbors believe affects me and my ability to live my own personal life such as who I can marry, what my kids will be taught in school, whether my children are drafted into a war, whether I will have to live by strict laws I don't agree with, etc. Those aren't hypotheticals; it is the case now.
There is also the case in which although the law may permit something, one may have to suffer all the difficulties and disadvantages of social rejection due to what your neighbors believe. For example, if the majority of my neighbors believed that it was wrong for a woman to work outside the home, if a woman did it she might face constant harassment, be unable to obtain positive references when applying for a job, be shunned and excluded from social gatherings, have her children beat up at school because she works, etc. Her quality of life is affected by her neighbors' beliefs.
We are social beings and what society thinks of us and permits us to do affects us a great deal. So, it matters what our neighbors believe. And their religious beliefs are often most fundamental and at the core of many of the decisions they make about how to vote and for what to express approval or disapproval.
I respect your right to believe whatever you choose, but I also feel that we must have the freedom to try to influence the beliefs of others. It matters greatly if we can get a majority of our neighbors to believe as we do. If you don't believe me, imagine for a moment if all of your neighbors believed women should be wearing a burqa. They might shun and harrass you and maybe even physically assault you if you wanted to do your own thing.
So, if I try to persuade you to believe differently than you currently do, that does not mean that I am disrespecting your right to believe whatever you choose. I am not denying you your right or forcing you to accept mine. One can accept your right to believe what you want and try to get you to believe something else at the same time. If, after my attempts, you continue to believe what you did at the start, that is fine. I want my freedom to believe what I want as well, and understand that some will try to persuade me to believe differently. That is ok.
Look, most of this country (and most of the world) is religious...and that is MOST. They believe "The Rules" originate with some theological doctrine. To them...without that basis...you have no "foundation" to build your "moral house" on. And to that I say...So what?! They can think what they want. I think what I want. You think what you want. We are all free to think what we want to think. But it's certainly logical that their message would be much more prevalent...since their belief is vastly more prevalent.
I've said this many, many times before...and some take it as "hate"---But, an Atheistic viewpoint is going to cause one to "not fit in" in most places. Atheism is a veeeeeeery small minority concept in this country (and in the world)...8to9 out of 10 believe in a God, specifically "Biblegod" or "Allah"...and also believe certain ancient writings is where you will find "The Rules". This not an insult to Atheism...just a statistical fact.
I'm not saying Atheists are ignorant, or deluded, or believe in false concepts or anything like that...they are just a very insignificant conceptual force in the arena of world influence.
Most think differently than Atheists...again, MOST. That doesn't make them delusional, idiots, believers in fairytales, or any of the other things that might be said about them. Aaaaaaand, they believe they have THE RIGHT to believe whatever they want to believe...aaaaaaand speak and act FREELY and OPENLY about it.
Some are just going to have to learn to deal with that fact...or to continue to go through life with an obviously angst-ridden constitution.
Fact is...certain "viewpoints" present in much greater numbers in certain places...and, of course, will greatly influence the culture and lifestyle of that society.
As far as "getting the majority of your neighbors to believe as you do"---the odds of appreciably changing the "conceptual landscape", in the period of a lifetime, to such a degree it swings drastically to something different...is ZERO! Don't believe me? Go to the M.E. and try to change them from the concepts of Islam. See how far you get.
The best thing to do...if one finds it of such great importance "what the neighbors think"...is to find the area of the world where the "theological landscape" coincides the most with yours, and if at all possible, move there.
I don't care what the neighbors think. I only care when religious belief influences the law and the way I have to live. If they are kept separated, I'm totally OK with it. Unfortunately, such is not the case.
My neighbors just across the street think Billy Graham hung the moon, and put a "He is risen!" sign in the yard every Easter, but they are very good neighbors.
With your dark dreary attitudes how do you even get out of bed in the morning???
It's not dark and dreary to look at things realistically. I am very matter of fact about things, I won't worry my head about them, but I will recognize them for what they are calmly, rationally, and pragmatically.
I've said this many, many times before...and some take it as "hate"---But, an Atheistic viewpoint is going to cause one to "not fit in" in most places. Atheism is a veeeeeeery small minority concept in this country (and in the world)...8to9 out of 10 believe in a God, specifically "Biblegod" or "Allah"...and also believe certain ancient writings is where you will find "The Rules". This not an insult to Atheism...just a statistical fact.
However it was also a statistical fact that once most people thought the world was flat, and that disease and conditions like epilepsy were caused by demonic possession. Counter views then were the minority. Slowly however they changed.
The same is true of atheism. Yes, the majority still subscribe to the evidence devoid notion that there is a god entity. However Atheism in many countries is the fastest growing minority group. Studies are being produced suggesting the trends say we will see an extinction of religion "relatively" soon in 9 nations.
So really all your post points out is something we know already.... we are an ignorant species, slow to learn and slow to change.... but we get there in the end. We have seen massive changes in the Zeitgeist on many opinions and beliefs over time... there is little reason on offer to suggest that Religion will be any different... though clearly it is one of the slower aspects of our human ignorance to change.
I do not expect to see religion die, nor do I expect my children's children to see it either, and probably not for many generations after that. However the trends I see today are promising.... lack of religion is on the rise as one of the fastest growing minority groups.... Secular agendas are becoming more prevalent even among the religious.... agendas that were once religious are slowly dying such as persecution of the homosexual.... and the conversation between science and religion has been ENTIRELY one directional with a constant erosion of the fringes of the latter by the former.
Long may it continue and I am proud to have played my small part in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
they are just a very insignificant conceptual force in the arena of world influence.
I am happy to report that this is entirely untrue. They are actually becoming a very significant force. Take, for one example, Atheist Ireland a group of which I am a founding member. Barely more than a year old Atheist Ireland has played a good role in politics in Ireland and in the EU....
....In Ireland playing a major role in the scheduling of Referendum on Children's rights and on the Blasphemy law. They are playing a large part in the new Irish government's plans to remove the schools from Catholic patronage....
At UN level they have helped cause the UN to monitor Racial and Religious discrimination in Irish schools....
So I see nothing at all to support this assertion you have made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Most think differently than Atheists
Again I would disagree. They might think differently in terms of the existence of gods. However the reasons they are taken so seriously in situations like I listed above is that many of the actual MAIN agendas of atheists match that of many theists too... that is to say secular agendas. Most atheists do not want to remove belief in god from the world. Most could not care less what people think about god. The agenda of most atheists is not atheism, but secularism. Clearly mass atheism is ONE way to achieve secularism, but it is by far not the top means most aim for. An ideal secular state can be achieved in a state with 1% belief in god or 99%.
In fact a large number of atheists are "cultural theists" and are perfectly happy with, and even joining in with, much of the culture that comes from religion. There is nothing "good" I am aware of in religion that one has to actually think there is a god in order to be perfectly happy with keeping..... mainly because they are nothing to do with religion at all, but have been commandeered by religion in order to make the package look better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
As far as "getting the majority of your neighbors to believe as you do"---the odds of appreciably changing the "conceptual landscape", in the period of a lifetime, to such a degree it swings drastically to something different...is ZERO!
Possibly the one thing you said that I agree with 100%. I do not expect to see any major change in my lifetime, nor do I expect any major change for many generations yet. Does that mean we should not try? Of course not. Many of us have a vision that goes far beyond the short term of our own lives. Your own narrow vision confined to your own lifespan might suit you, more power to you, but it is not enough for many of us. Many of us see the slow, but steady decline of the hold of religion on our society, politics and education... and are proud of the tiny part we play in it... even if we will never live to see the end result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
With your dark dreary attitudes how do you even get out of bed in the morning???
Some people get out of bed looking forward to the joy of trolling.
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