Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-02-2011, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,333,698 times
Reputation: 441

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
I imagine it works as well as placebos. I haven't seen any research on it, but considering alternative medicines of any type tend to fall in the same category, I don't hold high regards.
I suggest that anyone who thinks Reiki is fake, should try it and see ffor themselves. But, you can't just go to any reiki practitioner. It has to be someone who was taught by a reiki master.

Quote:
Anecdotal. Try telling the likewise thousands (and likely more) who don't feel the benefits that it does work and that they are wrong.
So, you are saying that what works for one must work for everyone? Weird, then I guess we only need one anti-depressant and one kind of heart medicine. Get real, What works for one might not work for another.

Quote:
Not necessarily. The purpose of the scientific method is to eliminate bias by testing objectively--and when those objective tests show that various alternative medicines do not work any better than placebos, it's your kind that turn around and blame the researched for conspiring against you.
No, I don't think anyone is conspiring against me. Well, except for the tax man. I just think that science hasn't reached a level in which it can test some things that are considered fake.

Quote:
Anecdotal. Also you're using an inhaler--something derived from standard medical practices. Seems hypocritical of you. Then again, considering asthma is brought on by stress, and getting a massage does relieve stress, your argument belies itself.
No, I have the inhaler in case I ever need it. I am not using it. It's like a fire extinguisher. In case of....

I will probably carry it with me till the end of the year just to see how I do.

Quote:
You aren't cured. Asthma is a genetic disease. Good luck with that one.
Actually you are wrong. Ask my doctor, a regular family practitioner, he thinks that I have gotten rid of my asthma as well. He is being hopeful. And Asthma is not a genetic disease. I am the first in my family to have it and I didn't have it until about 10 years ago. Not all asthma is brought on by stress. There are multiple causes for asthma.

Quote:

Not required. You've convinced yourself of a lie. You have to convince yourself it's false.
well, if this lie keeps me asthma free, I will keep the lie over the asthma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-02-2011, 11:58 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,962,335 times
Reputation: 8956
OMG. It is so depressing that people are still so backwards in their development and so unaware . . .alternative medicine works . . . there is no doubt about it . . . from acupuncture, which is thousands of years old to Reiki - which is channeling healing energy (sounds crazy, but you can FEEL it - Reiki feels hot . . . I used it on my dad who was given two hours to live and he lived for two years) . . . flower essences WORK, homeopathic medicine WORKS, herbs WORK (obviously the drug industry is aware of this, it is just the general population that doesn't understand what they are taking).

Alopathic medicine treats symptoms - unfortunately, the body is a whole system - and becomes ill with symptoms when too stressed to handle normal pathogens . . . treating symptoms is misinformed.

If people would only experiment on themselves they would learn about these things and not be so skeptical . . . the aversion to holistic medicine seems to be that people hold science in the same light as religion - you aren't allowed to question science.

There's no awareness of the Newtonian or Cartesean split of the mind from the body - no understanding that the Catholic church was focused on burning "witches" (the women who were midwives and understood herbal medicine) . . .

I am very discouraged about the lack of real thinking or awareness or actually being open-minded and trying something different - especially when what you are doing doesn't work (sick people popping pills like crazy and getting sicker and sicker).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,906,905 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I suggest that anyone who thinks Reiki is fake, should try it and see ffor themselves. But, you can't just go to any reiki practitioner. It has to be someone who was taught by a reiki master.
Every Reiki practitioner has to be taught by a 'master'. They can't qualify otherwise. I know of at least three others that qualified with me that are no longer practicing. They agree with me. Reiki only works on those that are already convinced that it will work. Take it from me pal...it's all in the mind!

Quote:
Actually you are wrong. Ask my doctor, a regular family practitioner, he thinks that I have gotten rid of my asthma as well. He is being hopeful. And Asthma is not a genetic disease. I am the first in my family to have it and I didn't have it until about 10 years ago. Not all asthma is brought on by stress. There are multiple causes for asthma.
For once, I agree with you. My asthma didn't start until I was in my late 40's and coincided with a move from the countryside to a city. There is no history of asthma in my family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,333,698 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I'm not saying they are. But you mentioned Reiki and I'm just pointing out, as someone who qualified as a Reiki practitioner, that a huge part of successful treatment, well ALL the treatment IMHO can be attributed to the patient convincing himself that it works.
There is actually scientific reasoning for it. Human to human contact or even the thought of it, can have an effect that releases endorphins. Humans generate body heat, when we place our hands on someone that heat is felt. Added heat applied to the body energizes and increases the amount of blood cells in the heated area. An increase in blood cells helps heal.

Reiki also works because the person getting it is thinking about the contact that is being made. They are thinking of a certain area on their body and it does the same thing as I mentioned above. The body responds to the mind.

Quote:
Of course but the placebo itself is useless. You can prove it easily enough yourself. Next time you have a headache, go into the garden and find yourself an empty snail shell. Crush it into a powder and then swallow it. See if it cures your headache. Both you and I know that the snail shell will have absolutely no effect on your headache. On the other hand, if you were convinced that snail shells cured headaches, then it would work. It is convincing yourself that the useless pill will cure you that provides the effect not the pill itself.
Didn't I already say this in another post? A placebo is a placebo if it works. If it doesn't do anything for the individual then it isn't a placebo.

Quote:
I'm not saying that alternative therapies are wrong. They work for many people. But it isn't the therapies in and of themselves that work, it is the people that really believe they work that make them work. I've tried hypnotherapy and acupuncture to give up smoking. Neither worked. They didn't work because I wasn't convinced that they wouldn't work.
Guess what? If you wore a patch and you were convinced it wouldn't work, it might not work. Our bodies are weird like that. My Asthma medicine was making things worse for me because I thought they didn't do any good.

Quote:
Look old chap. Let me save you some money here. Instead of giving your hard earned cash to charlatans, just go into the garden and get yourself a 'magic worm'. Convince yourself that your magic worm will cure you of everything that ails you if you just wave it in front of your eyes. It'll work mate, believe me! If it doesn't...well, you just don't have enough 'FAITH' in your magic worm.
So now you're saying that herbal medicine doesn't work? Haha. Ok well I guess you better stop taking any prescribed medicine. Where do you think they get the minerals for mass produced medicines? Wait for it....Plants and animals. Sure they can make things artificially in a lab, but they usually have side effects.

I love how skeptics always resort to childish ways, most skeptics I know live sheltered, molded, and sad lives. They are afraid to try anything new, or anything that society has cast aside. They are afraid of being seen as different. People don't want to be seen as weird.

I live at peace with the things I choose to do. I don't have stress in my life right now and I prefer it that way. I don't buy into television or game consoles. I would rather go outside and get fresh air, sit in my yard and meditate or go on a hike taking in all the marvelous things nature has to offer us. Call me weird, look at me as I am different than you. I am ok with being outside of the mold. I don't want to exist like everyone else. I am going to continue to investigate the wondrous mysteries that life holds for us, usually just waiting around the next turn.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,906,905 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
There is actually scientific reasoning for it. Human to human contact or even the thought of it, can have an effect that releases endorphins. Humans generate body heat, when we place our hands on someone that heat is felt. Added heat applied to the body energizes and increases the amount of blood cells in the heated area. An increase in blood cells helps heal.
I know! I'm also a qualified massage therapist (though I haven't practiced for about 10 years now). Massage aids blood flow which has a relaxing effect, releasing the tension within the muscle and thereby decreasing the discomfort. My point (returning to Reiki) is that there is no need to spend your cash on Reiki practitioners. Just buy a 'heat-pack' from your friendly local pharmacy and apply to the chakras. It will do just the same thing.

Quote:
Reiki also works because the person getting it is thinking about the contact that is being made. They are thinking of a certain area on their body and it does the same thing as I mentioned above. The body responds to the mind
.Of course! That's what I'm saying. It's all in the mind.

Quote:
So now you're saying that herbal medicine doesn't work?
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that magic worms can get you the same results if you can convince yourself that magic worm work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,333,698 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that magic worms can get you the same results if you can convince yourself that magic worm work.
Are they good for fishing? Maybe one that always catches a fish?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,906,905 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Are they good for fishing? Maybe one that always catches a fish?
Afraid not dude! Your mind has no influence on the fish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,200 posts, read 46,769,864 times
Reputation: 11089
All I can say, Konraden, is that I have never been sick a day in my life. I've always been healthy. Mind over body.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 07:29 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,732,817 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
So, why do atheists use it to try and prove something wrong?
Who does what to the who now? No one can explain something which you're making up on the spot.

Quote:
And fail I might add. Lack of proof is not proof of falseness
Nope, but it is a very good reason not to believe in something.

Quote:
Just remember, at some point even Newton looked like a wacko to the people of his time.
So you are a unitarian Christian? If not, you think he's a wacko also - at least with respect to his religious beliefs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 07:30 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,732,817 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
OMG. It is so depressing that people are still so backwards in their development and so unaware . . .alternative medicine works . . . there is no doubt about it . . . from acupuncture, which is thousands of years old to Reiki - which is channeling healing energy (sounds crazy, but you can FEEL it - Reiki feels hot . . . I used it on my dad who was given two hours to live and he lived for two years) . . . flower essences WORK, homeopathic medicine WORKS, herbs WORK (obviously the drug industry is aware of this, it is just the general population that doesn't understand what they are taking).

Alopathic medicine treats symptoms - unfortunately, the body is a whole system - and becomes ill with symptoms when too stressed to handle normal pathogens . . . treating symptoms is misinformed.

If people would only experiment on themselves they would learn about these things and not be so skeptical . . . the aversion to holistic medicine seems to be that people hold science in the same light as religion - you aren't allowed to question science.

There's no awareness of the Newtonian or Cartesean split of the mind from the body - no understanding that the Catholic church was focused on burning "witches" (the women who were midwives and understood herbal medicine) . . .

I am very discouraged about the lack of real thinking or awareness or actually being open-minded and trying something different - especially when what you are doing doesn't work (sick people popping pills like crazy and getting sicker and sicker).
I guess in some circles, insulting people and ranting are a substitute for evidence and research. To me, stuff like this makes it harder to look objectively at any of the positive that may be present in alternative medicine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:48 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top