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Sanspeur & Jaymax,
So... Do you think the United States Center of Disease Control (CDC) is not a credible source of information they gather from hospitals & clinics around the country? "STD Increases among Gay and Bisexual Men reported at National Conference." STD Increase among Gay and Bisexual Men
"While CDC estimates that MSM account for just 4 percent of the U.S. male population aged 13 and older, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM in the U.S. is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522–989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men)."
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf (broken link)
The reason why I feel passionate about posting these medical risks, is because I don't want to lose anymore to AIDS (2 friends have died recently), nor do I want to see more pain & suffering through STDs or other homosexual-related health risks.
Good point... basically that some gay-supporters jump to conclusions in judging people for despising people when it's harmful behavior (like gay sex & gay marriage) that is not supported.
Some comments on this forum indicate that.
I was referring to the OTHER crap you keep posting, not something sourced directly from the CDC website. The CDC also refers to MSM (men who have sex with men). This also includes, bisexual men, men on the "downlow" (especially black men) and straight men who are curious, not just gay men. It also only focuses on men who have had unsafe sex with other men, not gay men in general. Yes, it is much riskier for gay men IF they have unsafe sex. This does not mean that all gay men are promiscous and have unsafe sex. \
You don't appear to get it that most gay men do NOT have AIDS, and that worldwide, HIV/AIDS is far more common amongst heterosexuals- according to the World Health Organization. You appear to be trying to paint all gays and lesbians as promiscuous and disease ridden.
Also the CDC states that there has been no reported cases of HIV among lesbians if there are no other risk factors other than female/female sex.
Do you realise that if I wanted to try to paint heterosexuals (especially straight men) in a really bad light, it would be incredibly easy? Rape, child molestation, STD's, fetishes, pornography, prostitution, promiscuity, unsafe sex, domestic violence, abortions, child abuse and neglect etc etc
Some homosexuals lead risky lives just as some heterosexuals do.
Aptor Hours,
Although I understand your perspective, I think the question to ask is,
"How can a person worship a religion that despises ANYONE?"
It seems that the central theme in all religion is LOVE.
Love is striving for what's the higher best... which we do through trial & error.
Since the topic of this thread is "gay people" - what is best for them?
What's best for everyone? Life, health & well-being.
Statistically, those with homosexual preferences have more partners than heterosexuals do, which accounts for their higher percentage of AIDS & STD cases.
Statisically? What "statistics" are those? Original source please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
So, striving for what's best... loving gay people - involves supporting behavior that promotes life, health & well-being & "despising" destructive behavior.
So then you fully support acceptance of gay people - which reduces the problems associated with marginalization and stigmatization of a minority.
And you fully support gay marriage which would encourage long term committed relationships and stable homes for children, as well as increased well being and happiness for gays and lesbians.
JayMax,
The US Center for Disease Control is a reliable source & I've already posted links. Please refer to my previous posts.
As you mentioned, this has been thoroughly discussed in the other thread in Christianity, in which even more information regarding homosexuality was discussed.
My intention for posting medical risks of homosexual practices is to inform people so they make educated decisions & to hopefully prevent health complications, sickness & death.
I realize not all homosexuals have to deal with this!
Yet many do, so it's worth it to me to go to the trouble of posting this info.
I don't mind discussing disagreements in a civil way, but your disrespect, name calling & cussing is not civil.
If you are interested in truth, I'll trust that you'll research with an open mind to find it.
How about just letting gays be? I am sure none of them are going to take your advice and gay is NOT a disease nor is it a choice and it is NOT contagious. Folk are born that way.
JayMax,
The US Center for Disease Control is a reliable source & I've already posted links. Please refer to my previous posts.
As you mentioned, this has been thoroughly discussed in the other thread in Christianity, in which even more information regarding homosexuality was discussed.
My intention for posting medical risks of homosexual practices is to inform people so they make educated decisions & to hopefully prevent health complications, sickness & death.
I realize not all homosexuals have to deal with this!
Yet many do, so it's worth it to me to go to the trouble of posting this info.
I don't mind discussing disagreements in a civil way, but your disrespect, name calling & cussing is not civil.
If you are interested in truth, I'll trust that you'll research with an open mind to find it.
Then lets be honest, you seem to be wanting to make a case that gays are the only people spreading aids in the US. If that were so then how do you explain these statistics? Among heterosexuals, HIV rates are almost eight times higher for blacks than among whites and among Hispanics the rate is almost three times higher than whites.
Should we condemn all blacks and Hispanics as well as gays?
Then lets be honest, you seem to be wanting to make a case that gays are the only people spreading aids in the US. If that were so then how do you explain these statistics? Among heterosexuals, HIV rates are almost eight times higher for blacks than among whites and among Hispanics the rate is almost three times higher than whites.
Should we condemn all blacks and Hispanics as well as gays?
Has the condemnation ever stopped? It always goes back to race doesn't it?
These threads are not religion/philosphy based that's for sure. That's just a ruse description.
JayMax,
The US Center for Disease Control is a reliable source & I've already posted links. Please refer to my previous posts.
As you mentioned, this has been thoroughly discussed in the other thread in Christianity, in which even more information regarding homosexuality was discussed.
My intention for posting medical risks of homosexual practices is to inform people so they make educated decisions & to hopefully prevent health complications, sickness & death.
I realize not all homosexuals have to deal with this!
Yet many do, so it's worth it to me to go to the trouble of posting this info.
I don't mind discussing disagreements in a civil way, but your disrespect, name calling & cussing is not civil.
If you are interested in truth, I'll trust that you'll research with an open mind to find it.
Yes, all that "information regarding homosexuality" you "discussed" was from ONE anti-gay propaganda article (not the CDC) and was systematically discredited.
Seriously -that article you cited included the anti-gay religious fundamentalist Scott Lively's rubbish about gays being behind the Nazi holocaust, and included junk science by the anti-gay, de-registered and discredited psychologist, Paul Cameron.
How do expect anyone to take you seriously when you use a source like that?
And please stop trying to make out that the CDC was the source of some of your more bizarre claims, rather than that propaganda article you keep quoting from. The CDC is a reputable source, but you are misrepresenting the information. Your other source is a relatively small conservative political group who don't believe in evidence-based medicine and seem to find conspiracies everywhere.
It's obvious, you have no interest in truth or "honest research". You have yet to admit your original source misrepresented data. Why is that?
I seriously question your stated claim to "only want to help gay people".
How does spreading, lies, myths, misinformation and negative stereotypes help gay people?
He has also had his MD license revoked in 1993 for Professional Misconduct. Physician
His license was revoked long before he even wrote the article you seem to love to quote from. The 2005 article had his title as MD, which was clearly false.
And the group who published his article are a conservative political group who don't believe in evidence-based medicine.
They obviously don't believe in honesty or facts either.
Nice reputable "truthful" source. LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
JayMax,
If you are interested in truth, I'll trust that you'll research with an open mind to find it.
Unfortunately for you, I DO like to do research and find the "truth".
In my case I'd be for that, generally speaking. However the ones who do ads that villify Mormons or vandalize even sympathetic Catholic churches or sue groups for disagreeing with their values I think merit some defense from.
The reaction to Proposition 8 I admit still sticks in my craw a bit. I was more blase before then. I felt then like "well I don't know if it's a good idea, but if a state wants same-sex marriage then that's a state's right." I was so okay with Canada having same-sex marriage I was at a kind of "virtual" lesbian wedding for Canadian author A. M. Dellamonica. (If she could see me now I guess) I admit that was one I was a tad hesitant on, but I figured if it was okay in her beliefs and Canada's than you know cross-cultural tolerance or even respect.
However mostly I'd say practicing gays can have their views on homosexuality, I can have mine, and others can have some other combination. As long as those views don't involve badgering or bothering those who disagree with them. So if Unitarians or Quakers bless gay unions that's their business. If gays have clubs that obey all laws than that's fine. If churches or mosques want to refuse sexually active gays from even entering their property also good by me. Or if they want to refuse entrance to deformed people like me. I wouldn't like such a faith, but I can just avoid it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
I am sure none of them are going to take your advice and gay is NOT a disease nor is it a choice and it is NOT contagious. Folk are born that way.
The thing is we really don't know if people are born that way. Yes I'm going to get screaming on that, but the studies only indicate homosexuality influences how people respond to certain stimuli and that it's often set at an early age. It most likely has a genetic or in-uterine factor, but I don't think determinism is proven on the matter. It could be solely "born that way" or it could be a combination of genetic predisposition coupled with early environmental factors. Unless something drastic has changed in the last couple years and I've tried to keep up with science sites.
Then on other aspects of the spectrum it's more uncertain. Pop-singer Leslie Gore (It's My Party, etc) says she didn't know she was lesbian until her 20s. I had no same-sex attractions, that I recall, until High School. True I displayed certain behaviors or traits that, I now realize, are seen as "factors." I was a third son, left-handed, not mechanical, and I had dolls as a boy. Still my male-peers saw some of these as factors before I did and my first attractions were exclusively women. Granted I didn't "invert" into exclusively same-sex, but same-sex attractions did arise and never went away.
On a different matter, Hollywood notions aside, people do have some choice in love and sexual partners. A gay man can decide a certain guy, even if he loves him, is no good for him. Or a straight woman can decide she'd rather focus on her career and put off serious relationships for awhile. Or, in olden days, forever as it was sometimes easier for a "spinster" to be a career woman back when.
In my case I'd be for that, generally speaking. However the ones who do ads that villify Mormons or vandalize even sympathetic Catholic churches or sue groups for disagreeing with their values I think merit some defense from.
The reaction to Proposition 8 I admit still sticks in my craw a bit. I was more blase before then. I felt then like "well I don't know if it's a good idea, but if a state wants same-sex marriage then that's a state's right." I was so okay with Canada having same-sex marriage I was at a kind of "virtual" lesbian wedding for Canadian author A. M. Dellamonica. (If she could see me now I guess) I admit that was one I was a tad hesitant on, but I figured if it was okay in her beliefs and Canada's than you know cross-cultural tolerance or even respect.
However mostly I'd say practicing gays can have their views on homosexuality, I can have mine, and others can have some other combination. As long as those views don't involve badgering or bothering those who disagree with them. So if Unitarians or Quakers bless gay unions that's their business. If gays have clubs that obey all laws than that's fine. If churches or mosques want to refuse sexually active gays from even entering their property also good by me. Or if they want to refuse entrance to deformed people like me. I wouldn't like such a faith, but I can just avoid it.
The thing is we really don't know if people are born that way. Yes I'm going to get screaming on that, but the studies only indicate homosexuality influences how people respond to certain stimuli and that it's often set at an early age. It most likely has a genetic or in-uterine factor, but I don't think determinism is proven on the matter. It could be solely "born that way" or it could be a combination of genetic predisposition coupled with early environmental factors. Unless something drastic has changed in the last couple years and I've tried to keep up with science sites.
Then on other aspects of the spectrum it's more uncertain. Pop-singer Leslie Gore (It's My Party, etc) says she didn't know she was lesbian until her 20s. I had no same-sex attractions, that I recall, until High School. True I displayed certain behaviors or traits that, I now realize, are seen as "factors." I was a third son, left-handed, not mechanical, and I had dolls as a boy. Still my male-peers saw some of these as factors before I did and my first attractions were exclusively women. Granted I didn't "invert" into exclusively same-sex, but same-sex attractions did arise and never went away.
On a different matter, Hollywood notions aside, people do have some choice in love and sexual partners. A gay man can decide a certain guy, even if he loves him, is no good for him. Or a straight woman can decide she'd rather focus on her career and put off serious relationships for awhile. Or, in olden days, forever as it was sometimes easier for a "spinster" to be a career woman back when.
Do you have any problem with the Mormon Church or Catholic Church vilifying gay people or spreading fear-mongering/hate-mongering propaganda?
Did you see the Gathering Storm ad produced by NOM? NOM is funded by the Catholic Church. That ad was disgusting. And there were many more ads that were even worse making all sorts of fear-mongering false claims. NOM has also been involved in running Bus Tours around the country with their anti-gay, fear-mongering messages. Interestingly, one of their own, Louis Marinelli, has left them and is exposing them for what they truly are.
Why do you have a problem with gay people exposing that vilification and propaganda and retaliating agauinst those who are vilifying them? Is the ad you are referring to about Mormons invading the home of a lesbian couple? It used satire to get the point across that the Mormon Church was funding so much of the anti-gay propaganda for Prop 8 and that the Church was getting heavily involved in politics and restricting CIVIL rights. It was the ONLY ad that took a more aggressive stance towards the Church who was funding so MANY fear-mongering propaganda Prop 8 ads full of false claims. One ad, against many. I wish they had done more ads - but it was done by a small group with little funding. I doubt anyone would see that ad and not think it was satirical.
Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? This guy seems to want to live in a Theocracy.
Same-sex marriage is a civil marriage, not religious marriage. So when churches fund fear-mongering propaganda against gay people, don't you think gays have the right to fight back?
You say: "However mostly I'd say practicing gays can have their views on homosexuality, I can have mine, and others can have some other combination. As long as those views don't involve badgering or bothering those who disagree with them. "
So you don't want gay people to badger and bother people who "disagree" with them?
Are you serious? If ONLY religious groups would STOP at just "disagreement".
Read what the SPLC has to say about the anti-gay hate movement by the Christian Right over the past 40 years:
And the Catholic Church is no better. They still try to push the long discredited Freudian notions that homosexuality is caused by a distant father and over-protective mother or by child sexual abuse. Despite the fact that there is no evidence that supports that notion and plenty of evidence against it. (Plus you just have to ask enough gay people - but gosh, what would THEY know about their own childhood? )
I think you'll find that most scientists and researchers now think homosexuality is innate for most homosexuals, or at the very least, that sexual orientation is definitely not a choice. There has been more and more evidence to show biological causes, and NO evidence to show that the way a child is raised causes homosexuality or that sexual orientation is a choice.
What does it say about Churches and religious groups when they resort to propagating baseless myths, negative stereotypes, misinformation and bald-faced lies about gay people, to further their agenda of "disagreement" with gays? Lying, slandering and hate-mongering for "God" is still lying, slandering and hatemongering.
Last edited by Ceist; 06-19-2011 at 06:41 AM..
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