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The Bible tells us that there will be 144,000 male Jews that will preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. They are from the 12 tribes of Judah. This tells me one thing, God is preparing for Jesus second coming.
I'm confused.
12 tribes of Judah?
Wasn't Judah one of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL?
Does that mean that the 12 tribes of Israel each have 12 tribes within them? Does that mean there are 144 tribes of Israel?
I know several Messiahnic Jews, including a Rabbi who runs a Messiahnic Jewish congreation here in Phoenix and they retain their Jewish traditions, but have the same beliefs about Jesus as Christians.
Keep in mind that Jesus was raised as a Jew also, and so were his Disciples and followers.
I was also surprised to hear a few years ago, that some Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and the Son of God, and he was the illegitimate son of Mary. A couple of years ago a Christian friend of mine went to Israel with many members of her church. They flew on El Al Airlines (Isreal's airlines) and on the flight from Tel Aviv to New York JFK, she told me that one of the people from her church was seated next to a couple of Jews, and right after the flight left Tel Aviv, they asked the flight attendant to seat them somewhere else because for some reason they felt offended when a Christian sat next to them.
It's not some Jews, it's ALL Jews. Jesus cannot be the Messiah. The Messiah does it all in one fell swoop - the fact that Jesus fulfilled virtually none of the prophecies means he cannot and will never be the Messiah. Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews might be of Jewish heritage, but they are no longer Jewish. Not sure why this fact is surprising... early Christianity chose to ignore the holy books in favor of a popular figure.
In reality, I would consider Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews more truthful Christians. It has never made much sense to me how far Christianity strayed from Jewish law. However, trying to pass themselves off as Jewish and have the expressed mission of converting Jews is pretty despicable.
I have a sister-in-law who was converted to evangelical Christianity from Judaism back in the late 1960's and although that predates Jews for Jesus by a few years (they were incorporated in 1972) I recall she was quite sympathetic to their cause over the years and excited at the prospect that some of her fellow Jews would "see the light" so to speak. I always regarded them as Christian converts from Judaism who wanted to maintain some Jewish cultural identity.
What the OP was talking about way back at the beginning of this thread, about a JFJ group that was very controlling sounds like an offshoot that either got into the shepherding movement or perhaps just adopted the authoritarian memes of some Jewish subgroups who place a huge emphasis on submitting to leadership. I don't think that controlling authoritarianism is inherent to the movement and I would not regard them as a cult in the evangelical sense of "not conforming to basic evangelical orthodoxy". But, the definitive answer would be found, as others have suggested, in simply researching the web and checking them out.
As for whether Jesus fulfilled prophecy, I agree with charolastra00 that such claims are contrived, but I left theism altogether a long time ago so I am not terribly interested in how these opposing groups choose to duke it out.
And Elahlane, I'll join Aeroquipa in putting up a wager on your assertion :-)
It's not some Jews, it's ALL Jews. Jesus cannot be the Messiah. The Messiah does it all in one fell swoop - the fact that Jesus fulfilled virtually none of the prophecies means he cannot and will never be the Messiah. Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews might be of Jewish heritage, but they are no longer Jewish. Not sure why this fact is surprising... early Christianity chose to ignore the holy books in favor of a popular figure.
In reality, I would consider Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews more truthful Christians. It has never made much sense to me how far Christianity strayed from Jewish law. However, trying to pass themselves off as Jewish and have the expressed mission of converting Jews is pretty despicable.
Your explanation of early Christianity is overly simplistic, but whatever. There have been, as you might imagine, endless conversations and writings on this very topic, starting with some of the earliest Christian writings known as the epistles and included in what's called the New Testament. Similarly, there have been a vast number of conversations and writing in both Christianity and Judaism as to who the Messiah is--or will be--and the differences in what either religion believes is as wide as the ocean and ne'er the twain shall meet. You can't be waiting for the Messiah if you believe he's already come and the guy you are waiting for/thinks came already doesn't fit the description of what the other group is waiting for/thinks already came.
And as you probably know, there's a school of thought that believes that Jesus came to provide a path for Gentiles to find their way to the one true God but that the law was not required of them as it is for Jewish people. Christianity is not supposed to be Judaism with Jesus thrown in, despite its origins. That same school of thought also holds that people's covenant with God through Christ did not in any way cancel out God's covenant with the Jews, and that it's therefore an affront to God to try to lure a Jew away from Torah and attempt to convert them to Christianity.
There are few Messianic Jewish temples in my area.... They are all 100% Jews who believe in Jesus, but still celebrate Jewish holidays and customs. Early Christians were mostly Jews too.
I have a Messianic Jewish friend whom his family disowned because he believes in Jesus.... very sad. He told me that indeed some Jews secretly believe in Jesus but in fear of admitting due to shame, etc.
Jews believe in jesus are christians they are no longer jews. celebrating jewish holidays, using hebrew words does not make one jewish. if you bother to read threads started by jews on why they believe in jesus you will know this
Jews believe in jesus are christians they are no longer jews.
celebrating jewish holidays, using hebrew words does not make one jewish. if you bother to read threads started by jews on why they believe in jesus you will know this
I think that is the bottom line. There are some Jews who converted to Christianity. There are some Christians who have converted to Judiasm ... but I never heard of a group called "Christians for Torah" or "Kosher Ex-Christians" and so on.
My take on the whole "Jews For Jesus" organization is that it is a Christian missionary activity that is focused one evangelizing the Jews. Nothing wrong with that, except there is a tiny bit of deception in this crusade. It appears they are trying to sell people on the idea that they can still be Jews while being Christians at the same time.
I think it is ridiculous.
Just imagine if someone started a group called "Christians For Buddha" ... the leader says "Oh, I'm a Christian and I celebrate Christmas and we get together and sing hymns but we believe you must follow the Buddhadharma including the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path in order to reach supreme enlightment, which must be our ultimate goal!" I really doubt that group will not be embraced by most Christian denominations, if any.
I think that is the bottom line. There are some Jews who converted to Christianity. There are some Christians who have converted to Judiasm ... but I never heard of a group called "Christians for Torah" or "Kosher Ex-Christians" and so on.
My take on the whole "Jews For Jesus" organization is that it is a Christian missionary activity that is focused one evangelizing the Jews. Nothing wrong with that, except there is a tiny bit of deception in this crusade. It appears they are trying to sell people on the idea that they can still be Jews while being Christians at the same time.
I think it is ridiculous.
Just imagine if someone started a group called "Christians For Buddha" ... the leader says "Oh, I'm a Christian and I celebrate Christmas and we get together and sing hymns but we believe you must follow the Buddhadharma including the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path in order to reach supreme enlightment, which must be our ultimate goal!" I really doubt that group will not be embraced by most Christian denominations, if any.
Excellent Summation.
I agree with it fully and have nothing to add.
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