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All living things give off body heat, body heat can be transferred from one to the other.
This means that the majority of living beings on earth aren't alive according to your interpretation - cold blooded animals, plants, many bacteria and so on. There's a reason most people who know anything about biology rejected vitalism a few centuries ago, and it has nothing to do with them being non-believers.
My problem was not, is not and never will be with people who have different beliefs to me. My problem is solely with people who have entirely unsubstantiated beliefs.
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Beat me to it NOZZ.......
raison_d'etre, picture this..... You are walking down the street of your city. Everything is great. The weather is good and all around a good day for you. Now you turn a corner, and there, on the sidewalk, is a crazed man with tin foil on his head, shouting about how the gov't is trying to read his thoughts and yours as well. What would you do in this situation? Likely you would gaze over, form a sarcastic thought in your mind, eyes front and continue walking, because you know these beliefs are likely untrue, and completely unfounded.
Nor have I suggested they should not be! The world would be a dull and boring place if everyone believed all the same things I do. I am perfectly happy with people who have different beliefs to me.
Yes, you did. Not only did you suggest that but you show prejudice towards religious people claiming they are pretending.
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...I envision a future where people no longer tolerate those who pretend to know things they do not...
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My problem was not, is not and never will be with people who have different beliefs to me. My problem is solely with people who have entirely unsubstantiated beliefs.
Is a mechanism to cope with the stresses of the world and the unknown good enough for you? We all cope differently, I really with people would get off their high horse and see that what works for some DOES NOT work for others.
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Even then I only have a problem with those people when they fail to keep such beleifs personal. I have no issue whatsoever on any level at all with PERSONAL faith. Never have, never will. The problem is people are not keeping those beliefs personal. They enter into our halls of power, education and science and not only espouse those beliefs, but try to erect policy and law based on them.
If they must keep their beliefs personal, what about you? You obviously don't like religious people very much, and have many insults to toss around about them. This is one of the problems I have with atheism, they attack beliefs and do whatever de- they can to provoke an emotional response, why? Because they can rationalize an emotional response. I don't think it should be in politics, businesses should be able to incorporate their religion into their own business avoiding discrimination, it is only ok with schools as a cultural, philosophical, and historical view. As for science, Science belongs to all, the religious and spiritual use science all the time.
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The analogy I often use is that of a golf club. I have no problem with people going into those clubs and wearing those patently ridiculous check trousers. I think the trousers are ridiculous and horrific but I have no actual issue with them. Were those people to leave their clubs and demand we wear the trousers too... THEN we have a fight.
Do you think we should not allow them to wear those trousers outside their club? Or discuss the benefits of wearing them? Do you think we should create special tolerance levels for these people?
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Similarly I have not, and will not, have a problem with people who think there is a god. The fight comes because they come into our halls of power, education and science and attempt to erect policies based on the notion there is a god.... or they do truely horrific things to other people because they think there is a god or they think they can get special treatment of one form or another due to their beliefs.
What about those that do amazing things because they THINK there is a god? I don't think anyone should get special treatment for any lifestyle choice or for common attributes they are born with, ie. affirmative action, being a minority or female should not give additional "special" benefits that a white male cannot receive. But that is a topic of another forum.
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No. Sorry but no. You can believe it all you want but as soon as you are espousing it publically you are fair game. You are pretending to know things you simply do not. You are espousing claims that are not just slightly but entirely devoid of any substantiation whatsoever. As I said these are things to be worked against. In an increasingly global society where discourse is the single most important tool we have.... resisting those who claim things on literally no substantiation is a cross we all have to bear but one that is very much worth bearing.
No, I and any other religious and spiritual person are not "Pretending". We truly believe what we do. If this is how you are going to go about it, I can simply say you are pretending to be atheist. When Christians say this, you get so aggravated. Is this some sort of revenge tactic or just an attempt at an emotional response? With this we need to throw out the big bang theory as there is no evidence other than looking through a telescope. And contrary to popular belief, a telescopes and microscope are very different. We can affect or touch what is under the microscope to test it, we cannot do that with a telescope. So the Big bang theory is just assumptions based on observations that aren't too clear at all. Remember, logic tells us that just because A usually results in B happening does not mean it will always happen this way.
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As I said I envision a society where people who espouse the totally unsubstantiated are derided and marginalised, just like we do to those today who espouse racist ideals. I can hardly expect such a society to arise if I myself do not practice that ideal. As long as you are willing to espouse unsubstantiated claims, I will be there to reply to them and point out that you are pretending to know things you simply have no basis for.
So bully or discriminate? You don't understand the concept of spirituality or religion do you? You understand various words and their meanings, but you know little if anything about what it means to have say faith or belief in something. Or do you? You claim there is not God and that any and all religious and spiritual beliefs are just pretend, false, or lies. Yet, you have no proof of this. Only opinionated "logic" that really cannot be applied aside from what you believe, and since you think unsubstantiated claims should be derided and marginalized... welcome to the club. Oh, and burden of proof does not only fall the theists, it can fall on you as well.
Say I said matter did not exist, the burden of proof would fall on me to prove such a claim. Or if I said red cars don't exist, I would take the burden of proof.
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I prefer to keep my conversations public unless someone wants to take up a personal issue about me with me personally. However I do find terms like "life force energy" to be vague and meaningless. To what exactly do you refer here? How exactly do you define it. Where and what exactly is it. And to those that do (whether you be one of them or not) what utility is there is labeling this "god" given the metaphysical baggage that term comes with?
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Who said it was God given? I didn't. To me, it is the same energy that caused the big bang and everything to unfold. Without energy, the universe as we know it would cease to exist, energy is the driving force of all living things. Without energy, you would die, trees would die, the earth would die.
This means that the majority of living beings on earth aren't alive according to your interpretation - cold blooded animals, plants, many bacteria and so on. There's a reason most people who know anything about biology rejected vitalism a few centuries ago, and it has nothing to do with them being non-believers.
Yeah, go back and read your biology books. All living things have and give off body heat, some just do so faster than other and in various ways. Put a lizard in a cold environment, it will give off body heat until it dies. Warm blooded animals need much energy to survive, cold-blooded need less energy to survive.
raison_d'etre, picture this..... You are walking down the street of your city. Everything is great. The weather is good and all around a good day for you. Now you turn a corner, and there, on the sidewalk, is a crazed man with tin foil on his head, shouting about how the gov't is trying to read his thoughts and yours as well. What would you do in this situation? Likely you would gaze over, form a sarcastic thought in your mind, eyes front and continue walking, because you know these beliefs are likely untrue, and completely unfounded.
No sarcastic thought comes to mind. I don't mock people in public or private like that. It is the individuals choice to believe what they want, if they choose to follow someone else's belief, that is their choice. I only have concern when they want to MAKE me believe the same or do harm to others.
Not totally unfounded in a way "they" are... they in this case is Uof California, Berkley.
With all the dumb and wasteful spending the government does, I am sure they are invested in something like this as well. The Government does want to control your mind, anyone who denies this is blind or has bought into it. But, a topic for another time...
Nope. Nor do I understand your continued need to pretend to know what I mean by my own words better than I do. I have told you exactly what I meant by my words. Do not pretend I mean anything else by them.
I repeat: I have no issue with people of differing beliefs. The world would be dull if all beliefs were the same. I have only got issue with people who publicly espouse entirely unsubstantiated beliefs. Anything else you want to claim I mean by this is just lies from you. It is unsubstantiated beliefs, not differing beliefs, I have issue with. If you want to pretend I have issue with anything else, you are just making stuff up to stuff into a straw man.
Simply saying that such unsubstantiated beliefs give people a coping mechanism is irrelevant. If this is true then great, let them have their personal faith. I already indicated I have no issue with personal faith. Let them have their coping mechanism. I never suggested having a problem with that or that I want to remove that.
I repeat, for the umpteenth time, it is only when such unsubstantiated beliefs enter the public arena that the fight is on. IF your personal faith helps you cope and stays personal.... you have no issue with me.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
If they must keep their beliefs personal, what about you?
What about me? If they were keeping their unsubstantiated beliefs personal then I would not even be having this conversation with you, I would not BE a member of Atheist Ireland and Atheist Alliance international, I would not be saying anything on the subject. There might not even BE an AI or AAI to be a member of.
So what about me? I would like never to discuss religion ever again. I would like to stick to the subjects I am interested in. Education, sexuality, politics, science, ethics and much more. But in every one of those areas I have religion forced at me and I have every right to push back.
So what about me I ask? If unsubstantiated beliefs were kept personal, I would not have an issue and I would not be espousing my opinions on the matter. I discuss it only because I have been given no choice in my life.
If people stopped coming into important areas of discourse pretending to know things they simply do not, then there would not be a discussion here to even have. So there IS no "what about me" here.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
You claim there is not God
Where did I claim that? I think you will find that my claim is that there are no reasons, evidence, arguments or data on offer to suggest there IS such a god and that I think that any idea that is entirely devoid of any substantiation should be entirely dismissed.
I keep saying this, but I really would prefer you reply to what I actually say, not what you invent for me. It is kind of how conversation works.
The claim there is a god is your claim, so the burden of proof is on you and you alone. Not me. If you have issue with the big bang for example then take it up with people who are espousing it. I never mentioned it here. Let the people espousing it tell you the evidence for it. I think you will find there is a lot more than just telescopes involved.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
Who said it was God given? I didn't.
Try reading the sentence again. If it helps put "....." between "God" and "given".
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
To me, it is the same energy that caused the big bang and everything to unfold. Without energy, the universe as we know it would cease to exist, energy is the driving force of all living things. Without energy, you would die, trees would die, the earth would die.
Still no idea what you are talking about here. Yes energy is required for life. What has this fact got to do with this "Life force" you are on about? I simply have no idea what you mean by this "life force energy" of which you speak. What is it? Define it exactly? Where is it? What is your evidence for it? Why call it "god"?
With all the dumb and wasteful spending the government does, I am sure they are invested in something like this as well. The Government does want to control your mind, anyone who denies this is blind or has bought into it. But, a topic for another time...[/quote]
Heat is a great example of this. All living things give off body heat, body heat can be transferred from one to the other. If you want more than this, PM me and I will be glad to write you a lengthy explanation.
Oh-oooo. Time to attend Biology 001.
And... spare me the "lengthy explanation" please. I have no time for nonsense or technically illiterate explanations that are philosophically self-serving.
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BTW, Nozz: +5 big rep points for your post #116 above. Can't do it any other way right now... Cheers!
Yeah, go back and read your biology books. All living things have and give off body heat, some just do so faster than other and in various ways. Put a lizard in a cold environment, it will give off body heat until it dies. Warm blooded animals need much energy to survive, cold-blooded need less energy to survive.
I think it is you who needs to learn about biology...Actually you should have done it before posting such nonsense...The only body heat that any cold blooded creature can give off is what they have absorbed from a heat source such as the sun, directly or indirectly...Unlike warm blooded creatures they do not manufacture their own, so that pretty much destroys your theory that it is some kind of "life force energy" that makes body heat.
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