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I've noticed an increase in the anti-christian rhetoric around here, and among the over opinionated posts, I have noticed that there are still people that don't even think Jesus existed. This is truly shocking, that we have gotten to the point of debating over well established factual people/points in history. Also, the refusal to accept the Bible as a valid document that has recorded history is rampant, even among so-called christians.
I suspect that the influx of wrong information is due to the internet. Now everyone is an expert! Just google "did Jesus even exist?". The results will be sites filled with the same regurgitated false information that all of the "web/youtube brand atheists" spew. You see this is how they get their information!
Knowledge has become nothing more than a high class prostitute, selling itself to the most depraved minds of a desperate world in the form of a computer. Once you type in a question into a search engine and get a multitude of answers, it is then in the questioner's control of what is factual or not. Now don't get me wrong... Computers are a vital tool in this world and I am not discounting them completely. I just see multiple generations of children being brainwashed by garbage on the internet.
Truth has made itself known in the embodiment of Christ. He is the only trust worthy foundation in this lost world. And yes there is a large population that has never even heard of Christ. Do you think it is beyond the creator of the universe to be able to manifest himself among that remote tribe in Africa? How arrogant of you, because it is happening all over the world! Muslims are meeting Christ in their dreams and converting on the spot. Christ defeated the grave/death so that all can have life if they choose.
Dr Craig lays out a beautiful lecture on the historicity of the resurrection. You can skip the intro at 6:35 in the video. There are seven parts.
Watch all seven parts. I look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy!!!
I've noticed an increase in the anti-christian rhetoric around here, and among the over opinionated posts, I have noticed that there are still people that don't even think Jesus existed. This is truly shocking, that we have gotten to the point of debating over well established factual people/points in history. Also, the refusal to accept the Bible as a valid document that has recorded history is rampant, even among so-called christians.
I suspect that the influx of wrong information is due to the internet. Now everyone is an expert! Just google "did Jesus even exist?". The results will be sites filled with the same regurgitated false information that all of the "web/youtube brand atheists" spew. You see this is how they get their information!
Knowledge has become nothing more than a high class prostitute, selling itself to the most depraved minds of a desperate world in the form of a computer. Once you type in a question into a search engine and get a multitude of answers, it is then in the questioner's control of what is factual or not. Now don't get me wrong... Computers are a vital tool in this world and I am not discounting them completely. I just see multiple generations of children getting brainwashed by garbage on the internet.
Truth has made itself known in the embodiment of Christ. He is the only trust worthy foundation in this lost world. And yes there is a large population that has never even heard of Christ. Do you think it is beyond the creator of the universe to be able to manifest himself among that remote tribe in Africa? How arrogant of you, because it is happening all over the world! Muslims are meeting Christ in their dreams and converting on the spot. Christ defeated the grave/death so that all can have life if they choose.
Dr Craig lays out a beautiful lecture on the historicity of the resurrection. You can skip the intro at 6:35 in the video. There are seven parts.
Watch all seven parts. I look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy!!!
I understand if you have a busy schedule. Watch one at a time, no rush!
If you refuse to defend your position, then you lose the debate by default.
Defend your position, don't give me a study-list. You should just tell me what you believe and why, instead of making me go out and find it. You might as well just ask me to google it. I would find it quicker there anyway.
I have noticed that there are still people that don't even think Jesus existed. This is truly shocking...
Moderator cut: deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
..., that we have gotten to the point of debating over well established factual people/points in history. Also, the refusal to accept the Bible as a valid document that has recorded history is rampant, even among so-called christians.
It is well-established that the bible claims that the Hebrews destroyed 16 cities during the Exodus and names them by name.
It is also well-established that a fanatical christian archaeologist attempted to prove the veracity of the bible by proving those 16 cities existed, and were destroyed by the Hebrews as the bible claims.
He failed.
Of the 16 cities, he was only able to find and identify 10 of them.
Of the 10 he found and identified, only 3 of them were destroyed, and he was unable to prove that the Hebrews destroyed them. The archaeological evidence to date suggests that one of those three cities might have been destroyed by the Hebrews, but the other two most certainly were not.
Worse than that, the remaining 7 cities Albright found where either not destroyed or were not even occupied. In the case of those cities that were not occupied, it doesn't matter which date you accept for the Exodus ("late date" or "early date").
Three of the cities that were not occupied were Jericho, Ai and Gibeon.
That means the story about Joshua walking around the walls of Jericho and blowing his horn is Moderator cut: inappropriate complete fantasy; never happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
Knowledge has become nothing more than a high class prostitute, selling itself to the most depraved minds of a desperate world...
Wow, just like christianity; what a coincidence. I got news for you, in the end, everything gets perverted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
Truth has made itself known in the embodiment of Christ. He is the only trust worthy foundation in this lost world.
And in spite of 2,000 years of christianity, the world is still a cess-pool.
Could there be a reason why? Well, let's consult the bible:
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by Jesus Christ’s appointment and the authorities that exist have been instituted by Jesus Christ. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of Jesus Christ, and those who resist will incur judgment.
So if the world sucks, it's because a moron like Jesus keeps putting other morons in charge to rule over people and destroy their lives, morons like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, et al.
So what kind of person is Jesus if he appoints a maniacal murderer like Hitler to rule?
I'll wait patiently for you to grasp at straws to answer that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
Do you think it is beyond the creator of the universe to be able to manifest himself among that remote tribe in Africa?
Apparently, because obviously the African tribal groups did not get the memo. They had to wait until the 1890s when British missionaries came and started murdering in the name of Jesus to learn about Jesus.
[quote=jdaelectro;23322742] How arrogant of you, because it is happening all over the world![/quuote]
I like arrogance, and I'm quite right: there are still people on Earth who never heard of Jesus. Apparently Jesus was way to busy to make an appearance in Oceania or in the Amazon rain forest or in Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
My beliefs on the matter are identical to Dr Craig's.
And "Doctor" Craig's beliefs are what, exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
Debate? What debate? You haven't even mentioned anything to do with the resurrection.
Neither have you.
There is a large body of evidence that Jesus never died.
My beliefs on the matter are identical to Dr Craig's.
Debate? What debate? You haven't even mentioned anything to do with the resurrection.
If you aren't willing to watch the videos, then I don't know what to tell you, other than . . . see ya.
BTW you could have watched multiple parts of the lecture by now, assuming you have a decent connection.
The problem is that many people are going to respond to this thread without having watched your video and may not address your arguments, because they will have to sit through 1 1/2 hours. Others won't even care enough to respond.
It is just common courtesy to present a source and describe the relevant info from it instead of giving people a study list, if they want to know what you are even arguing. In some forums it is even a requirement.
Why are you so against just telling us what arguments you have for all to read?
Why are you so against just telling us what arguments you have for all to read?
...because he is like so many other evangelical god-zombies.... unable to present an argument in his own words because he doesn't know enough about what he claims is 'Truth'.
[quote=Mircea;23324923]Apparently Jesus was too stupid to figure that out.
It is well-established that the bible claims that the Hebrews destroyed 16 cities during the Exodus and names them by name.
It is also well-established that a fanatical christian archaeologist attempted to prove the veracity of the bible by proving those 16 cities existed, and were destroyed by the Hebrews as the bible claims.
He failed.
Of the 16 cities, he was only able to find and identify 10 of them.
Of the 10 he found and identified, only 3 of them were destroyed, and he was unable to prove that the Hebrews destroyed them. The archaeological evidence to date suggests that one of those three cities might have been destroyed by the Hebrews, but the other two most certainly were not.
Worse than that, the remaining 7 cities Albright found where either not destroyed or were not even occupied. In the case of those cities that were not occupied, it doesn't matter which date you accept for the Exodus ("late date" or "early date").
Three of the cities that were not occupied were Jericho, Ai and Gibeon.
That means the story about Joshua walking around the walls of Jericho and blowing his horn is Moderator cut: deleted ; complete fantasy; never happened.
Wow, just like christianity; what a coincidence. I got news for you, in the end, everything gets perverted.
And in spite of 2,000 years of christianity, the world is still a cess-pool.
Could there be a reason why? Well, let's consult the bible:
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by Jesus Christ’s appointment and the authorities that exist have been instituted by Jesus Christ. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of Jesus Christ, and those who resist will incur judgment.
So if the world sucks, it's because a moron like Jesus keeps putting other morons in charge to rule over people and destroy their lives, morons like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, et al.
So what kind of person is Jesus if he appoints a maniacal murderer like Hitler to rule?
I'll wait patiently for you to grasp at straws to answer that.
Apparently, because obviously the African tribal groups did not get the memo. They had to wait until the 1890s when British missionaries came and started murdering in the name of Jesus to learn about Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
How arrogant of you, because it is happening all over the world![/quuote]
I like arrogance, and I'm quite right: there are still people on Earth who never heard of Jesus. Apparently Jesus was way to busy to make an appearance in Oceania or in the Amazon rain forest or in Africa.
And "Doctor" Craig's beliefs are what, exactly?
Neither have you.
There is a large body of evidence that Jesus never died.
Arrogantly...
Mircea
Nice post. An equally good hypothesis and one supported by the archaeological evidence is that the Hebrews grew out of the surrounding caananite tribes and their tribal god evolved, as it were, out of the original pantheon which explains the odd plural references and the dualism of saying that YHWH is greater than the other gods and also that the other gods don't actually exist. It explains why God evidently originally had a 'mrs God' and the ongoing struggle of the Jehovah schools of thought to eradicate all of that Israeli tolerance of Baal (not to mention actually permitting worship) by the Theocrats of Judah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by distraff
The problem is that many people are going to respond to this thread without having watched your video and may not address your arguments, because they will have to sit through 1 1/2 hours. Others won't even care enough to respond.
It is just common courtesy to present a source and describe the relevant info from it instead of giving people a study list, if they want to know what you are even arguing. In some forums it is even a requirement.
Why are you so against just telling us what arguments you have for all to read?
As a necessary defence against the ploy of winning an argument by tossing in a reading - list and teling the opponent to go and convince themselves, it is a basic of discussion that a summary at least of the points that are being made should be put. I think that also applies to videos unless they are very short and easy to see the basic arguments.
It is also a matter of common courtesy to do so since it too much like the old cut and paste nonsense.
I cannot debate a YouTube nor have I the inclination to watch what is probably nothing new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
I've noticed an increase in the anti-christian rhetoric around here, and among the over opinionated posts, I have noticed that there are still people that don't even think Jesus existed.
There are many reasons not to believe.
There is no "evidence" outside of the bible of his existence
The bible itself is known to have been tampered with numerous times perhaps you are unaware of this?
The many anti folk you are ranting over are mostly ex theists and I for one can attest to the fact his promises regarding prayer were lies.
The stories of Jesus are derivatives of other pagan man gods down to the virgin birth, 12 disciples and resurrection.
Quote:
This is truly shocking, that we have gotten to the point of debating over well established factual people/points in history.
It is only "factual" in your own mind. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Quote:
Also, the refusal to accept the Bible as a valid document that has recorded history is rampant, even among so-called christians.
Seeing it is so self contradictory, no wonder it holds no authority. The evangelicals simply cherry pick the nice parts and ignore the stuff that really sucks or is contradictory. You obviously have never made a thorough study of the bible or else you would not pose such drivel.
Quote:
I suspect that the influx of wrong information is due to the internet. Now everyone is an expert! Just google "did Jesus even exist?". The results will be sites filled with the same regurgitated false information that all of the "web/youtube brand atheists" spew. You see this is how they get their information!
PTL for technology. Now folk can research to their hearts content. No longer can the lies of your religion go unchecked.
Quote:
Knowledge has become nothing more than a high class prostitute, selling itself to the most depraved minds of a desperate world in the form of a computer.
You should be happy. The bible clearly states there shall be an increase in knowledge and then the end shall come. However, they did not figure it would mean the end of religion. Start polishing your cloud surfboard as you wait to be raptured just like the millions before you who also thought it would be in their generation and ALL died just like ALL humans eventually will.
Quote:
Once you type in a question into a search engine and get a multitude of answers, it is then in the questioner's control of what is factual or not.
Yes this is true. How terrible that people can dare to make their own minds up instead of simply following the rest of the sheep conned by the local pulpiteer aka stand up comedian aka pastor.
"He who the son has set free is free indeed" - another ironic text with a double meaning.
Quote:
Now don't get me wrong... Computers are a vital tool in this world and I am not discounting them completely. I just see multiple generations of children being brainwashed by garbage on the internet.
As opposed to being brainwashed by babee jesus stories in Sunday school then only to learn later in life at great emotional turmoil, all of it is just lies, lies and more lies. Far better to allow them to forego that period of wrestling with the real evidence of the real world verses the man made false doctrines of man.
Quote:
Truth has made itself known in the embodiment of Christ. He is the only trust worthy foundation in this lost world.
There is none greater than allah, just depends where you were born and what you were indoctrinated with. Muslims and Christians can equally vouch for their god being the greatest and have spilled much innocent blood trying to prove it.
Quote:
And yes there is a large population that has never even heard of Christ.
The nail in the coffin for you religion - those that never heard which would be multiple billions, then there rules change and for them they get a free pass into heaven YET nowhere in the bible does it mention this FREE PASS. Only inferred interpretations and making the texts NOT say what it actually says.
Quote:
Do you think it is beyond the creator of the universe to be able to manifest himself among that remote tribe in Africa? How arrogant of you, because it is happening all over the world!
Yup, all over the world in the remotest of places where no one can verify anything, 5th and 6th hand heard-it-through-the-grapevine stories of villages and not even the name or location of said village or a GPS location in this modern day and age. You just have to take my word for it. Sound familiar?
Quote:
Muslims are meeting Christ in their dreams and converting on the spot. Christ defeated the grave/death so that all can have life if they choose.
Yup and christians are meeting allah and converting to islam or converting to buddhism - what does this prove?
All it proves that people that give themselves over to superstition and alternate states of consciousness can believe anything they set their minds to.
For the rational and logical folk, we have a simple test. Let god manifest in person, in 3D and in front of multitudes of witnesses and speak for itself.
Your bible even tells us that faith is woo.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Before you get all excited and feel offended, know it is the religion I criticize not you. I too once was a believer but now I am free from all that bound me to fantasy and false hope. No more consternation and wrestling with the imaginary beings in my head.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no afterlife and there is no bible god. ALL of this exists only in your mind. When you die so will your god and all your hopes for an afterlife. From the elements (dust) you came and to the elements (dust) you shall return.
Your immortality is only guaranteed as vague memories in your grand kids and your kids with some more fondness. After that, you fade to oblivion just like all the folk before us did. Best ensure those memories of you are good ones.
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