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Were one to be assured that one has an eternal after life to come then clearly the value of 80 years here is insignificant compared to an infinite eternity. Hence I find that the value of life here would be reduced in the same way as being given a massive mountain of gold would devalue the gold ring on ones finger.
I have to say that atheists say many things that are not true. This is one. If atheists truly value life so much then why are they not fighting against abortion? You know? Abortion: stopping the only chance for a person to exist and have a life.
Hate to say it, but it would appear that Christians and other religious types seem to hold This Life as being dear. Much more so than the prochoice crowd.
If atheists truly value life so much then why are they not fighting against abortion?
Many do actually, both high and low profile atheists. The Late Christopher Hitchens for example was against abortion. So I am afraid your vast generalization here does not hold.
However I would not derail this thread into an abortion thread. Abortion threads tend to get long and emotional and there are plenty of them on City Data already. Go find one, or start one, and I will explain exactly how and why I hold the opinions on abortion that I do and how they are perfectly compatible with atheism and my opinions on why life is valuable. Just name a thread for me and post on it and I will happily reply.
However I am unwilling, as I say, to derail THIS thread with an entirely off topic abortion debate.
None of it has anything to do with my point here, which stands. If value is proportional to rarity and uniqueness, which it very often is, then the more "life" you have the less the value of it. If you have a one time brief existence only then clearly this is more valuable than if you ALSO have a second eternal never ending existence.
And unfortunately some comments by religious people in positions of influence actually support my opinion better than you might expect. When you hear the line "The worst thing Nuclear War could do is speed people on their way to paradise" you would expect it was some fringe lunatic fundie like Rafsin Jarnz in Iran I was quoting. Surprising to find out they were uttered by the then Archbishop of Canterbury (Jeffery Fisher). Clearly what that line is saying is that the best thing any of us can do with this life is look forward to shuffling it off and getting to the next better one. Such people have so little value for THIS life that they would see the silver lining in a Nuclear Cloud.
[quote=Nozzferrahhtoo;24033254]
None of it has anything to do with my point here, which stands. If value is proportional to rarity and uniqueness, which it very often is, then the more "life" you have the less the value of it. If you have a one time brief existence only then clearly this is more valuable than if you ALSO have a second eternal never ending existence.
This concept is more acceptable, I do agree. If someone valued this life less than the next so-called promised land, then, one may incline to sacrifice it for anything; for instance suicides and killing others.
However, when you started attacking others for their belief (in Afterlife) then, you are infringing upon their rights to believe. Whatever evidence they put forward to support their belief, it is their right. If you don’t agree, say it nicely but you do not have to be sarcastic.
[You have simply declared there is an afterlife, made a nonsense analogy to something candles do not actually do, then admitted you have no evidence to actually offer at all
How this has "helped" anyone I do not know. Perhaps they too did not understand candles and so bought into the trick?[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]] quote
You failed to notice or have purposely neglect my reply that I used candle light going out as a figure of speech to illustrate life does not go out anywhere after death, as well as the candle light.
When I admit about having no hard evidence, you made it up to look as if I was a fool by your following remarks.
[So you admit to having absolutely no arguments, evidence, data or reasons to offer here to suggest there is an after life then? You just claim there is anyway.] quote
I have put forward a thread and have discussed using published data in peer-reviewed journals on Re-incarnation or Rebirth, which can be taken as circumstantial evidence; yet you wrote those harsh remarks!
Could you please learn to use the quote function and preview function correctly? I can barely read that post and tell which text is mine and which is yours. Please go back and fix it.
You agree with me however that having an extra life which is eternal reduces the value of this one relatively speaking. Since that was my entire point therefore, I am not sure what disagreement remains.
However:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidneytinhtut
when you started attacking others for their belief (in Afterlife) then, you are infringing upon their rights to believe.
This is simply nonsense. I have attacked no one, nor am I preventing or hampering anyone from any kind of rights. I am merely expressing my disagreement. If you have a problem with me expressing my disagreement then it is you, not I, that seems to have issues with infringing my rights. Is it one rule for you and one for me now? You express something I disagree with and that is just your right to an opinion. I express something YOU disagree with and suddenly I am "attacking" and "infringing rights?". Get real son.
Disagreement is not an attack. It is not an insult. It is not an affront to your (wo)manhood. It is not impinging your rights. I am merely reading what is being claimed, and explaining how and why I disagree. I am reading the claims that you are presenting and I am pointing out merely that you are presenting them unsubstantiated. None of this is wrong or a crime. I apologize for none of it. If you have a personal issue with being disagreed with then I wish you well getting over it, but I am not about to pander to it.
If disagreement is so offensive and horrific to you, perhaps partaking in a forum for discussion and debate is not the wisest choice for you. If however you want to present the evidence you have on this thread for an afterlife or your ability to contact spirits then I am all ears. I notice however you wholly ignored the post #22 where you were asked to though.
There is nothing worthless about what happens here just because we will be born again as Spirit.
Aside from the fact you really - really - want it to be true however do you see any evidence for any of this "spirit" or "born again" stuff you can share with us? I sure do not.
Why do folks need a promise of an afterlife for them to live(morally, happily, etc)? How would there being a place with "streets of gold" and "no pain" make your life more meaningful? Why wouldn't being, here, be enough?
I don't believe in any type of rewards in the next life nor do I expect that I deserve one for making it though this one. I think that's pretty lame & just sad. I think the afterlife will be filled with people who believe as I do friends & family. Be nice to see those who went before me & greet those who come after me. It doesn't make my life more meaningful or any less meaningful.
Aside from the fact you really - really - want it to be true however do you see any evidence for any of this "spirit" or "born again" stuff you can share with us? I sure do not.
I understand and I will take this as a sincere query. I have repeatedly said that the evidence I personally rely on is personally experienced during meditation. I remain uncertain of the exact nature of spiritual existence . . . despite my best efforts at wading through the spiritual speculations and mystical musings of the various entrenched worldviews among the spiritists . . . most of whom are outright frauds. I have sufficient (FOR ME) evidence that it is real . . . but little else on the specifics.
The transients that I experience are the strongest clue . . . but they are unpredictable. They generally require that I personally aggravate or otherwise evoke strong emotional reactions toward me among existing human beings. What is most striking about the transients is their identifiable character. I "know" who it is about even though I do not know what is causing these strong emotions toward me. This seems to be true despite the fact that I may never have actually met them in person. It seems to require only that I have interacted with them in some fashion. I need not be privy to or aware of the interaction that provoked the strong emotions. Geographical distance does not seem to matter either. But they tend to present in what I can only assume are more "ancestral" visions of the person. I have no idea why or what this means.
I understand and I will take this as a sincere query. I have repeatedly said that the evidence I personally rely on is personally experienced during meditation.
"No" then is the answer to my question. You have no evidence to present or share.
Saying to me that your evidence for an after life is just something you felt in meditation is about as useful to me as someone telling me I owe them 1 million dollars because they saw an IOU slip sign by me in a dream they once had. I quite literally can not take either less seriously than the other.
"No" then is the answer to my question. You have no evidence to present or share.
Saying to me that your evidence for an after life is just something you felt in meditation is about as useful to me as someone telling me I owe them 1 million dollars because they saw an IOU slip sign by me in a dream they once had. I quite literally can not take either less seriously than the other.
Everyone knows there is no hard evidence for the afterlife. If there was belief in it would not be a matter of discussion. Demanding unchallengable proof is disingenuous.
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